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JFWR

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Thanks!

I'm not too worried about the look of the spot, just the leather damage. Think a conditioning and a wax polish would be ok? I'm really just trying to get them to a place where I won't have to worry about babying them.
There isn't going to be serious leather damage from renovateur. It's a great conditioner; however, it has been known to strip surface polishing on hand painted surfaces.

But yes cream and wax is fine.

I have found veg tanned leather takes more wax to build up a shine. I do a much more full spit shine than does Munky, so this may be the foundation of our disagreement that veg tanned takes polish well, but needs more of it.

Just from a phenomenological level, veg tanned feels less "finished" than chrome tanned. The dye almost feels like it sits deeper into the skin, which retains more natural skin like Properties. As such, you need more wax to penetrate to get the wax shine, but I have developed such on my veg tanned boots and shoes.
 

JFWR

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I have a pair of light tan brogues. Do i need to use Saphir Renovateur to moisturise or can i get away with just using cream polish as a moisturiser ?

I dont want the colour to darken with Renovateur and I don't want to buy additional products like Bick4.
Cream polish is all you need to put on shoes you wear frequently in nice weather.

I'd only use renovateur once a year, really. It's not like conditioner on your hair. It is good if you want to correct to much cream, though.
 

Munky

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There isn't going to be serious leather damage from renovateur. It's a great conditioner; however, it has been known to strip surface polishing on hand painted surfaces.

But yes cream and wax is fine.

I have found veg tanned leather takes more wax to build up a shine. I do a much more full spit shine than does Munky, so this may be the foundation of our disagreement that veg tanned takes polish well, but needs more of it.

Just from a phenomenological level, veg tanned feels less "finished" than chrome tanned. The dye almost feels like it sits deeper into the skin, which retains more natural skin like Properties. As such, you need more wax to penetrate to get the wax shine, but I have developed such on my veg tanned boots and shoes.
1) I was relating my own experience of renovateur on my own veg tanned shoes. The combination was not good. 2) I do not do a spit shine of any sort. 3) I don't think it is a good to load veg tanned leather with polish and wax. The whole point neutral veg tanned leather (the sort I was talking about) is that it looks 'natural' and ages over time. I find that brushing and a rare but thin coat of neutral cream is fine.
 

Schweino

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I found that Renovateur did not have a good effect on veg tanned leather. I was very quickly absorbed and -counterintuitively - it dried the leather quite badly. I now, occasionally, use neutral cream. This seems to bring a bit of life back into them, after trying various things and drying them out. I seem to remember reading, somewhere, that wax was not a good choice for veg tan but I could not back that up with a reference.

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that neutral polish is probably best for most shoes. I also think that 'natural' products such as Pure Polish, Renapur and Chamber's leather balm are excellent. They do not contain harsh chemicals nor turpentine.
I can also highly recommend Bick 4, I use it on my crust leather patinated shoes (Carlos Santos for instance) and on my wife's exotic leather shoes. Works like a charm!
 

otacon

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There isn't going to be serious leather damage from renovateur. It's a great conditioner; however, it has been known to strip surface polishing on hand painted surfaces.

But yes cream and wax is fine.

I have found veg tanned leather takes more wax to build up a shine. I do a much more full spit shine than does Munky, so this may be the foundation of our disagreement that veg tanned takes polish well, but needs more of it.

Just from a phenomenological level, veg tanned feels less "finished" than chrome tanned. The dye almost feels like it sits deeper into the skin, which retains more natural skin like Properties. As such, you need more wax to penetrate to get the wax shine, but I have developed such on my veg tanned boots and shoes.
I think you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about Reno causing damage. I was referring to the hand sanitizer-damaged spot I mentioned in my earlier post.

I'm not really concerned with shining these, just trying to figure out how to treat the damaged leather and protect it.
 

JFWR

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1) I was relating my own experience of renovateur on my own veg tanned shoes. The combination was not good. 2) I do not do a spit shine of any sort. 3) I don't think it is a good to load veg tanned leather with polish and wax. The whole point neutral veg tanned leather (the sort I was talking about) is that it looks 'natural' and ages over time. I find that brushing and a rare but thin coat of neutral cream is fine.
1. Of course.

2. Yes, you and I have different aesthetic preferences for our shine. You prefer a natural, soft shine; I prefer a spit shine on the toes and heels especially.

3. I don't mean coating the whole shoe in a thick layer of wax. I mean if you want the spit shine, you need to put more layers on than you would otherwise use.

I do not find that a spit shine has ruined the natural patina that develops for the rest of the shoe. Of course, the toes and heels develop more of a character from the polish.
 

JFWR

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I think you misunderstood. I wasn't talking about Reno causing damage. I was referring to the hand sanitizer-damaged spot I mentioned in my earlier post.

I'm not really concerned with shining these, just trying to figure out how to treat the damaged leather and protect it.
The hand sanitizer stripped the dye. The leather itself should be okay.


Sadly, if the stain is really bad, all you can do is dye it.
 

otacon

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The hand sanitizer stripped the dye. The leather itself should be okay.


Sadly, if the stain is really bad, all you can do is dye it.
Thank you, but gain, I'm not too worried about the color or stain cosmetically. I don't need these to look pretty. They're outdoor boots. The way it is now, it just looks like it's a part of the patina.

I'm worried about the leather feeling rough and dry as it does now, and it getting worse. It's a bit better after the conditionings I did, but you can still rub your finger along the leather and feel the difference. I'm not sure how adding dye is going to change that, unless I'm misunderstanding and there is something in the dye that helps restore the protective finish to the leather?
 

JFWR

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Thank you, but gain, I'm not too worried about the color or stain cosmetically. I don't need these to look pretty. They're outdoor boots. The way it is now, it just looks like it's a part of the patina.

I'm worried about the leather feeling rough and dry as it does now, and it getting worse. It's a bit better after the conditionings I did, but you can still rub your finger along the leather and feel the difference. I'm not sure how adding dye is going to change that, unless I'm misunderstanding and there is something in the dye that helps restore the protective finish to the leather?

Basically, unless you have corrected grain leather, which comes with a weird acrylic layer, the finish is not some special substance at all. That's where your mistake was. I wasn't realizing you were thinking the finish was an actual protective sealer. This isn't like varnishing an oil painting.

My suggestion would coat it with a few layers of cream polish (drying/buffing between, of course), and then wax polish. If you think it needs more conditioning, go ahead and give it a nice, deep condition, but you can only hydrate leather so much. You don't need to apply conditioning over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Or to put it this way: Only poor quality shoes are actually finished with like, a clear coat of some acrylic over the leather. Really, the leather is treated with dye, then burnished (if it is), or just polished. That's it.

Removing the finish of the shoe is basically to un-dye the shoe, to remove the base colour of the shoe which is the dye applied to the leather, unless again you have corrected grain, then you are stripping acrylic off.
 

otacon

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Basically, unless you have corrected grain leather, which comes with a weird acrylic layer, the finish is not some special substance at all. That's where your mistake was. I wasn't realizing you were thinking the finish was an actual protective sealer. This isn't like varnishing an oil painting.

My suggestion would coat it with a few layers of cream polish (drying/buffing between, of course), and then wax polish. If you think it needs more conditioning, go ahead and give it a nice, deep condition, but you can only hydrate leather so much. You don't need to apply conditioning over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Or to put it this way: Only poor quality shoes are actually finished with like, a clear coat of some acrylic over the leather. Really, the leather is treated with dye, then burnished (if it is), or just polished. That's it.

Removing the finish of the shoe is basically to un-dye the shoe, to remove the base colour of the shoe which is the dye applied to the leather, unless again you have corrected grain, then you are stripping acrylic off.
Ah, thank you. This clarifies *a lot* for me. It's funny because I used to be familiar enough with certain tanning procedures to know that waxes and oils get worked into the hide, giving it the sheen. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I guess I was imagining some kind of coating this time for whatever reason.

I'll condition them a bit more and work some warm wax on it. Thanks again.
 

JFWR

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Ah, thank you. This clarifies *a lot* for me. It's funny because I used to be familiar enough with certain tanning procedures to know that waxes and oils get worked into the hide, giving it the sheen. I'm not sure what I was thinking, but I guess I was imagining some kind of coating this time for whatever reason.

I'll condition them a bit more and work some warm wax on it. Thanks again.
I mean, I had to double check to make sure myself. I didn't want to accidentally give you the wrong information, so it isn't utterly obvious.

But yes, just more or less treat it as you're rebuilding those initial layers of polish and you'll be fine. Warm wax is especially nice as it will fill in the pores nicely which will help keep water out if these shoes are meant for rugged wear.
 

otacon

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I mean, I had to double check to make sure myself. I didn't want to accidentally give you the wrong information, so it isn't utterly obvious.

But yes, just more or less treat it as you're rebuilding those initial layers of polish and you'll be fine. Warm wax is especially nice as it will fill in the pores nicely which will help keep water out if these shoes are meant for rugged wear.
Last night I did a thin polish of VSC on the toe box. I used melted beeswax tonight.

The results were...rather nice. The spot feels considerably less rough and I'm worried a lot less about them. They feel more durable. I wasn't too sure what kind of shine I'd get. It's nothing extreme, but it's there.
 

otacon

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Oh.
I used a spoon, too, as per one of the suggestions in the earlier link. I heated it and it worked well for getting some of the wax less blotchy.
 
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vim147

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Does anyone use saphir neutral polish ?
Ive ordered it to bump up an order to get free delivery but i dont know what id use it on.
 

OldTown

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Does anyone use saphir neutral polish ?
Ive ordered it to bump up an order to get free delivery but i dont know what id use it on.
I use it on new shoes and museum calf. I don't know if you need to on museum calf as I'm sure any ligher color polish than the shoe would be fine but I do it just as a precaution so I don't mess with any of the coloring. At some point you'll have to use a pigmented polish due to the wear calf skin gets over time but that's part of the fun.
 

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