The Official Dieworkwear Appreciation Thread

[dieworkwear]

Ugh, well, I ordered an M as well as an L.

My dude, treat yourself to a hamburger or two or three or fifty this weekend. They are delicious.

 

[cbusguy]

only one xl left...

 

[Newcomer]

Prolly flip it on grailed for an obscene profit - but really, depending on sizing, the M could fit small? I feel so guilty.

 

[dieworkwear]

Prolly flip it on grailed for an obscene profit - but really, depending on sizing, the M could fit small? I feel so guilty.

They told me it fits oversized. I think the measurements they give online are for body measurements, which is kind of confusing.

 

[Vadim T]

@dieworkwear
Hello Derek, I hope that you will help me.
Please explain the difference between the Panama and Canvas fabrics.
As an example
Panama
http://www.brisbanemoss.co.uk/shadecard.php?id=104&type=3
Canvas
http://www.brisbanemoss.co.uk/shadecard.php?id=66&type=3
The weight is the same in both cases, I want to order the fabric for the pants.
What Canvas fabric looks like, I roughly imagine.
I can assume that Panama fabric is more summer, judging by the name.
There's an article on your blog about Panama fabric, but this article is about ties.
https://dieworkwear.com/post/144307163969/panama-silks-for-summer
Perhaps you have a photo of clothes from Panama fabric?

I apologize to everyone for my еnglish.

 

[dieworkwear]

@dieworkwear
Hello Derek, I hope that you will help me.
Please explain the difference between the Panama and Canvas fabrics.
As an example
Panama
http://www.brisbanemoss.co.uk/shadecard.php?id=104&type=3
Canvas
http://www.brisbanemoss.co.uk/shadecard.php?id=66&type=3
The weight is the same in both cases, I want to order the fabric for the pants.
What Canvas fabric looks like, I roughly imagine.
I can assume that Panama fabric is more summer, judging by the name.
There's an article on your blog about Panama fabric, but this article is about ties.
https://dieworkwear.com/post/144307163969/panama-silks-for-summer
Perhaps you have a photo of clothes from Panama fabric?

I apologize to everyone for my еnglish.

I don't know how Brisbane uses the terms, but canvas is generally an umbrella term for a thick cotton plain weave (which means the weave goes up and down, left and right, like you see on a tic-tac-toe grid). Panama is one of the many different subcategories of cotton canvas cloths. They're all the same thing -- a thick cotton plain weave -- but they differ a little in terms of the chunkiness of the weave.

Sometimes a merchant will have their own term terminology though. Your best bet is to ask them for a shadecard. I believe they send them out for free. From memory, I think Brisbane Moss fabrics are kind of heavy for trousers, but some members here have used it. Know that they calculate their fabric weight by grams per square meter. The convention here is usually grams per linear meter. You'll have to do a little calculation if you're used to thinking of fabrics in terms of GLM.

 

[circumspice]

@gdl203 had Formosa do a olive cotton suit in Brisbane Moss, and offered it 2 years ago, I think. Kyle NMWA didn't know what book it was from when I was last in NYC. I run pretty warm, but that suit works well until it is 80ish. Definitely not airy the way a hopsack or linen can be, but its rigidity doesn't cause the fabric to cling to you.

My Formosa x DWW summer tweed suit should be back from alterations next week...

 

[Newcomer]

Hey @dieworkwear

I just wanted to say I hate you for leading me down a rabbit hole that led to this. However, I loved your pen article, and I took your ink and pad recommendations. I’ve been looking for a way to gather my increasingly scattered life and it has made a massive difference for me.

 

[dieworkwear]

Hey @dieworkwear

I just wanted to say I hate you for leading me down a rabbit hole that led to this. However, I loved your pen article, and I took your ink and pad recommendations. I’ve been looking for a way to gather my increasingly scattered life and it has made a massive difference for me.

View attachment 1185473

Ha, that's from Leigh Reyes' site, right? How did you stumble upon her blog?

I wanted to mention that Nakaya, but I also didn't want to start talking about $1,500 pens because I thought that would put people off. Feel like fountain pens are often seen as frou-frou status symbols, which can be kind of offputting if you're not already into them.

There are some reviews of that Nakaya on YouTube. That pen is incredible. If it didn't cost $1,500, I'd buy one. Caveats:

1. It will absolutely look like a chopstick rest if you use it outside
2. It doesn't fit into most pen cases
3. If anyone ever finds out how much you paid, you will be rightfully roasted.
4. It's essentially a Platinum 3776 nib in a fancy body. And you can get a Platinum 3776 nib for like $100.
5. They stopped making them -- kind of. Now you have to rush on their site and order when they offer them for limited periods.

Prob up there for me as a grail pen, but I can't justify paying $1,500-ish. Second-hand markets aren't that much better because pen nerds love Nakayas.

 

[emptym]

I used to use a fountain pen (a pretty basic Rotring), in part because I didn't like disposable pens, as in your post, D. But I stopped when I realized the ink smeared if the paper got wet, and it faded to the point of being illegible after about 10 yrs. Maybe the ink was bad, but it was Montblanc, which should have been good, no? I kind of want this pen. Nowadays, I just use an old Parker jotter, in turquoise to remind me of my SW desert upbringing.

 

[dieworkwear]

I used to use a fountain pen (a pretty basic Rotring), in part because I didn't like disposable pens, as in your post, D. But I stopped when I realized the ink smeared if the paper got wet and it faded to the point of being illegible after about 10 yrs. Maybe the ink was bad, but it was Montblanc, which should have been good, no? I kind of want this pen. Nowadays, I just use an old Parker jotter, in turquoise to remind me of my SW desert upbringing.

Noodlers makes something they call bulletproof inks, which are waterproof and fade resistant. Bulletproof inks can be kind of hard to clean out of a pen though -- just take a little more flushing, which is the reason why I don't use them.

The three min mark of this video shows the drip test:




At the 16 min mark of this video, Neil deGrasse Tyson shows the notes he took in grad school with a fountain pen (originally written thirty years ago). The lines are also still really good. He says he used Hunt Extra-Black

 

[Newcomer]

Ha, that's from Leigh Reyes' site, right? How did you stumble upon her blog?

I wanted to mention that Nakaya, but I also didn't want to start talking about $1,500 pens because I thought that would put people off. Feel like fountain pens are often seen as frou-frou status symbols, which can be kind of offputting if you're not already into them.

There are some reviews of that Nakaya on YouTube. That pen is incredible. If it didn't cost $1,500, I'd buy one. Caveats:

1. It will absolutely look like a chopstick rest if you use it outside
2. It doesn't fit into most pen cases
3. If anyone ever finds out how much you paid, you will be rightfully roasted.
4. It's essentially a Platinum 3776 nib in a fancy body. And you can get a Platinum 3776 nib for like $100.
5. They stopped making them -- kind of. Now you have to rush on their site and order when they offer them for limited periods.

Prob up there for me as a grail pen, but I can't justify paying $1,500-ish. Second-hand markets aren't that much better because pen nerds love Nakayas.

It is from Leigh Reyes’ site - and I just kind of stumbled across it as I went down the rabbit hole.

Unsurprisingly, you seem knowledgeable about pens. I’d be interested in a more detailed follow up article, maybe addressing the high end word (I have been reading about Hakase now).

I feel this way about watches as well (as another frou frou item that I like (but don’t have to enough) to spend money on): I appreciate the viewpoint of someone who is interested in clothing. For some reason, some of the pen/watch nerds (of which I am happy to be one) don’t necessarily apply their taste in pens/watches to other aspects of their lives. Stated otherwise, a lot of watch nerds are car nerds, and don’t really care about clothing. I’m always interested in hearing the perspective of someone who has my “root” interest.

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I bought the sole Dorsal Fin pen that Nibs imported (figured I could always flip due to scarcity).

 

[dieworkwear]

It is from Leigh Reyes’ site - and I just kind of stumbled across it as I went down the rabbit hole.

Unsurprisingly, you seem knowledgeable about pens. I’d be interested in a more detailed follow up article, maybe addressing the high end word (I have been reading about Hakase now).

I feel this way about watches as well (as another frou frou item that I like (but don’t have to enough) to spend money on): I appreciate the viewpoint of someone who is interested in clothing. For some reason, some of the pen/watch nerds (of which I am happy to be one) don’t necessarily apply their taste in pens/watches to other aspects of their lives. Stated otherwise, a lot of watch nerds are car nerds, and don’t really care about clothing. I’m always interested in hearing the perspective of someone who has my “root” interest.

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure, I bought the sole Dorsal Fin pen that Nibs imported (figured I could always flip due to scarcity).

Wow, you jumped into the deep end! That's impressive. I feel like most people who get into fountain pens prefer heavier metal pens and it takes a while to appreciate something like a Nakaya cause the design is relatively simple and the weight is somewhat light. The urushi lacquer, as you prob read, is done layer by layer, with each layer needing to dry before the next is applied. Supposedly the temperature and humidity have to be just right.

You also prob already read this, but don't post the cap of the Nakaya on the back of the pen (I don't think the Dorsal posts, but just in case). You can crack the inside of the cap or damage the lacquer finish. There are some pens where you can post the cap, but Nakayas aren't one of them. The urushi finish can also discolor if you leave it in direct sunlight for too long. Not like on your desk by a window, but like on the dashboard of your car or something.

If you're just getting into fountain pens, some things to think about:

1. IMO, a lot of this stuff is like clothing. It's easy for people to agree on the low-end stuff (e.g. "that pen is bad" or "that's good for value"), but once you get into the high-end stuff, it's kind of like clothes. Everyone knows Huntsman and Rubiancci are excellent tailoring houses, but people have their own preferences about what they like. And they'll argue about it on forums, just like people here argue about stuff.

In fountain pen communities, for example, people will argue about filling systems -- cartridge converter, piston, lever, button, or whatever. Or they'll argue about nibs -- feedback, hooded, vintage vs modern. Or they'll argue about how the barrel was designed -- the size of the section (the part your fingers grip), the transition between the section and barrel, etc.

Just like with clothes, I feel like getting into fountain pens is about finding what you like or don't like.

2. There's some correlation between price and writing experience if your sample size all of the fountain pen world. Very broadly speaking, I would say that if you pay $100+ for a pen, it will feel better than a $10 fountain pen. But once you narrow in on high-end fountain pens, there's often little correlation between writing experience and price. It's not uncommon to see $500+ fountain pens write a little more poorly than a $100 fountain pen. By poorly I mean hard starts and skipping. You can get a nib tuned (either do it yourself or send it to a professional), but you know -- it can be disappointing to get an expensive fountain pen and find it sometimes skips. Sometimes the factory didn't check the nib before sending it out, sometimes they over polished, or whatever. The guy you bought from, John, does really good nib tuning/ adjustment work. Mike Masuyama at Mike-It-Work is another guy in the US.

3. Surprise! Some people in the fountain pen community think things were better in the past!

There is something to be said about vintage pens. In the fountain pen world, there's something called "flex," which is how much the metal nib can flex on a page, producing a more variable line. You can get modern flex nibs (Pilot Falcon is popular), but modern flex nibs don't feel as flexible as vintage ones for a variety of reasons. Here's an example of a wet noodle (a term used for very, very flexy pens).





There are different levels of flex, and different vintage fountain pens may provide different writing experiences because of how they've changed over the years (some may have been repaired with different parts, etc). Sometimes you'll see guys who are all about vintage pens and they'll say that modern fountain pens aren't worth having (there are absolutists in every community). I think it just depends on what you want from a fountain pen. Modern pens are easier to buy and use. Vintage pens can take some hunting and maybe even going to pen shows. A wet noodle, if you've never used a flex pen before, can even be hard to manage since it's so responsive the pressure. And in the end, you may not even want that much line variation -- you may not be looking to write all fancy, you just want something to jot down notes at work or whatever. IMO, the nice thing about fountain pens, much like clothes, is that there's something for everyone and you can find what's right for you.

Some other pens you can look at:

1. Omas or Armando Simoni Arco pens: Arco is a celluloid material that kind of looks like tortoiseshell. It's a beautiful material that's made by putting on layers and layers of celluloid so you get this depth in the color. But like real ancient madder, the material was hard to produce and, eventually, they found was environmentally toxic (not in terms of owning it but producing it). So its production has been banned. Omas used it for a while for some of their fountain pens, but they went out of business. Their arco stock was then liquidated to Armando Simoni, another fountain pen company. The stuff looks nice, IMO. But it's stupidly expensive

2. Pelikan M800

A lot of people consider Pelikan's M800 and M1000 to be their grail pens. I go back and forth on the design -- the gray M805 looks like it would be nice with a business suit, but I don't really wear formal business suits. They also released a brown mother-of-pearl-ish edition called the tortoise, which I think is the best of their series. But they're big, thick pens. And the lines tend to be kind of thick as well (their fine nib writes more like a medium).

3. Sailor Pro Gear or Pilot Custom 823

Lumping these two together just because they're popular Japanese pens. Sailor's two most popular models are the 1911 and Pro Gear (one cigar-shaped, the other flat top). The Pro Gear is apparently Armoury approved (pictured above). The Pilot Custom 823, not pictured here, is also considered to be a grail by many. It's a somewhat translucent pen that takes after what are called demonstrator pens, which used to be used by pen salespeople to show how the inner components of a pen work. TBH, I don't really care for the 823's aesthetics, but it has a really nice writing experience and it's considered to be a workhorse pen by many people (sort of like the Lamy 2000, a pen where I'm so-so on the aesthetics, but it's definitely a good workhorse. Sometimes you don't want some crazy pen for taking notes in everyday work or school settings).

4. Waterman Carene

Most fountain pens have three kinds of nibs. There's the pointy thing that's stuck into the body of the pen, like what you see above and almost all fountain pens. Then there's a hooded nib, like you see on a Lamy 2000 or Parker 51. That means that the nib is a bit hidden, like a shy uncircumcised ... well, you know. The advantage of a normal nib is that you get to see all the cool scrollwork or stamping, and you actually get to see the nib. You don't see much of the nib in a hooded design, but by being hooded, the pen is less prone to drying out if you leave it uncapped for a while. My Parker 51 and Lamy 2000s, for example, never have hard starts.

The other possibility is what's called an inlaid nib, such as what you see above. The nib here is just laid into the body of the pen. The most famous example is probably Sheaffer's PFM. The acronym stands for Pens for Men. In the 1960s, when this pen was introduced, Sheaffer had these commercials like "get him a pen he can use! this is a pen for men!" One of the many examples of strange gender marketing. Anyway, it captured many of the design and marketing ideas of the 1960s.

Pictured above is a Sheaffer's PFM ad, as well as a Waterman Carene, which is a modern inlaid nib design. The Carene is inspired by racing yachts. I like how the nib looks like a ship's bow. Seems like it could be a cool pen to use with summer sport coats.

5. Eversharp Skyline or Symphony

If you're interested in vintage flex pens, Eversharp is a good starting place. Vintage Watermans, such as their famous pink nibs, are super flexy, but they can be hard to control. Eversharp Skyline, pictured above, was designed by a notable American industrial designer named Henry Dreyfuss. If you look at a side profile pic of the pen, it kind of looks like a streamlined train from the 1940s, which is when this pen was introduced.

The problem with vintage pens is that they're often not in very good condition. They can be brittle and sometimes the designs are so 1920s and 1930s, they don't really fit into the kind of clothing we talk about on this forum.

The Eversharp Symphony, however, is about as close as you can get -- it's reasonably modern, can be found at Peyton Street Pens in NOS condition, and aren't terribly expensive. I find I use my Kaweco Brass Sport, Parker 51, and Parker Duofold most with casualwear (mostly Americana, workwear type stuff), but they are, admittedly, not that interesting in terms of nib. They're somewhat straightforward writers with no line variation. If you want line variation, Eversharp Symphony is a good starting place.

Lastly, this post is getting too long, but if you like handmade Japanese pens, you can check out Danitrio and Namiki pens. Platinum's Izuomo, which is their flagship pen, is also made with urushi lacquer (a big ol pen). The StyleForum system won't let me embed YouTube videos, but here's a trad-y guy unboxing his Nakaya Harvest Moon pen, which is a maki-e design -- handpainted using many layers.

 

[jdp234]

It isn’t elegant looking, but the TWSBI diamond series is a whole lot of pen for fifty bucks.

 

[norMD]

A local store has the platinum procyon on sale. Anyone with experience with it?