The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[dieworkwear]

Well my understanding of their twisted last is so that in the ball area, the outside is slightly elevated compared to the inside. This supposedly helps with the rolling motion of the feet when we walk. In the photos, the outside is touching the ground, not elevated, so that is strange.

Also the inside heel seems elevated with possibly a wedge?

Anyway my point is the shoes might not be off-balanced. This seems like a complicated last so I would reserve my comments until i see the actual pair.

If it's a feature, and not a bug, it's not done on every pair. Again, here's a pair from a friend of mine that was made roughly the same time as Kirby's first pair.

This whole twisted last thing to me seems like marketing mumbo jumbo. If it's something done to account for the client's gait or something, that seems like it should be done with the support of a podiatrist or someone with medical training. I don't know if I want my shoemaker making me slanted shoes just so he can cut down the number of times he has to replace the sole.

 

[thatshoeotaku]

If it's a feature, and not a bug, it's not done on every pair. Again, here's a pair from a friend of mine that was made roughly the same time as Kirby's first pair.


View attachment 1202732


This whole twisted last thing to me seems like marketing mumbo jumbo. If it's something done to account for the client's gait or something, that seems like it should be done with the support of a podiatrist or someone with medical training. I don't know if I want my shoemaker making me slanted shoes just so he can cut down the number of times he has to replace the sole.

Well it is a bespoke last so as long as the customer is happy.

Same argument could be used for your friends shoes. His heels must look like a square because looking at that shape of the heel counter (not heel lifts) it is devoid of any curves especially when compared to Kirby's shoes.

The last maker must have been an amateur for making that! Rubbish bespoke quality or not... Well I think you get my point

 

[dieworkwear]

Well it is a bespoke last so as long as the customer is happy.

Same argument could be used for your friends shoes. His heels must look like a square because looking at that shape of the heel counter (not heel lifts) it is devoid of any curves especially when compared to Kirby's shoes.

The last maker must have been an amateur for making that! Rubbish bespoke quality or not... Well I think you get my point

Lifted heel could also be a result of them being bespoke Heelys. We can't rule that out.

*arrives to work in a Steed suit and Cleverley Heelys*

Boss: Derek, you finish that report?

Me: Yea, here.

Boss: This is just a receipt for some Heelys you bought

Me: *skates past him in my walnut colored GJ Cleverley Heelys*

Boss, under breath: **** that was so cool

 

[thatshoeotaku]

Lifted heel could also be a result of them being bespoke Heelys. We can't rule that out.

*arrives to work in a Steed suit and Cleverley Heelys*

Boss: Derek, you finish that report?

Me: Yea, here.

Boss: This is just a receipt for some Heelys you bought

Me: *skates past him in my walnut colored GJ Cleverley Heelys*

Boss, under breath: **** that was so cool

where can I send in my resume?

 

[dieworkwear]

Pro-tip for friends in Southern California, who are dealing with pretty scary earthquakes right now. When you feel an earthquake happening, cover your body in gemming so that if your house collapses on you, firefighters can slip you from under the rubble.

 

[DWFII]

This whole twisted last thing to me seems like marketing mumbo jumbo. If it's something done to account for the client's gait or something, that seems like it should be done with the support of a podiatrist or someone with medical training

Might be if it hadn't been developed well before 'marketing' became the central impulse of manufacturing.

I suspect the 'twisted' last originated with a shoemaker or a lastmaker (or one individual doing both) searching for a more 'natural', 'healthier' last. Not really the mercenary impulse that "marketing mumbo jumbo" implies. Perhaps even wholly altruistic, in fact.

 

[dieworkwear]

Kirby posted another video today, where he mentions that his lastmaker at Cleverley is Dominic Casey, back when Casey still worked at Clev. Casey also made the last for my friend's shoes, the tan ones I posted earlier.

Which makes me think -- there may or may not be such a thing as a twisted last, but the rocking back and forth seems to be a making issue, not only a last issue. I assume my friend had his shoes go one route with a certain set of makers; Kirby had his shoes go another. Hence why the same lastmaker results in two very different kinds of shoes.

If the heels were built properly and sat flush with the floor, they at least wouldn't rock.

I also assume the difference here is partly due to how many shoes Clev churns out per year, as well as the shortage of skilled labor. I wouldn't be surprised if my shoes were made by the same outworkers that make Kirby's shoes. (My last maker is Canera).

Years ago, I dropped a tailor because every new order was like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. They were strained for labor, so every new coat was made by a different coat maker. And each turned out differently, even though they all worked from the same pattern. Feels like, if you go to Clev, your shoes can turn out great if you get assigned to certain makers, but less great if you get someone else.

 

[emptym]

The twist, slanted heel, etc is strange, but it's interesting (and good) that Kirby seems to be very happy with them even after lots of walking.

 

[dieworkwear]

The twist, slanted heel, etc is strange, but it's interesting (and good) that Kirby seems to be very happy with them even after lots of walking.

Yea, I find the effect is barely noticeable when you're walking because your weight essentially "straightens" out the shoes.

I don't know how they'd effect the wear pattern on your shoes though. I imagine the shoes spring back to their twisted shape when you lift up your foot, which would affect how your heel strikes the ground.

 

[gte872h]

Yea, I find the effect is barely noticeable when you're walking because your weight essentially "straightens" out the shoes.

I don't know how they'd effect the wear pattern on your shoes though. I imagine the shoes spring back to their twisted shape when you lift up your foot, which would affect how your heel strikes the ground.

Could this have to do with Kiby’s gait? After watching Dominic Casey take Kirby’s measurements he explained how Kirby puts more pressure on the outside portion of his foot while walking. I’m only assuming this could be something Dominic implemented due to his experience working with orthopedic shoes during one point in his 30 plus year career.

 

[dieworkwear]

Could this have to do with Kiby’s gait? After watching Dominic Casey take Kirby’s measurements he explained how Kirby puts more pressure on the outside portion of his foot while walking. I’m only assuming this could be something Dominic implemented due to his experience working with orthopedic shoes during his 30 plus year career.

Someone else suggested that to me, but I find the answer to be improbable and overly complicated. I just assume Clev has a lot of orders and a shortage of skilled workers. So if, after your last gets made, your shoes go down the wrong "assembly line," it gets made one way, whereas if they go another direction, they get made another way.

I'll try to see if I can dig up photos, but there were so many issues with my shoes. If, by chance, the twisted last -- both in make and last -- went hand in hand with all those other issues, it would be ... surprising. I know two people who have gone to Clev, RJ and WIll from ASW. Their shoes look great, just like you'd expect with high-end bespoke. Foo also went to Clev, but I don't know him as well (photos of his Clevs seem fine). But on my pair, I had Kirby's twisted last issue, some gap between the outsole and upper, a last that didn't fit, scraped up soles (for some weird reason), and other make issues. What's the probability that all those things go hand in hand?

And anyway, my shoes have the twisted last, and the only person present at my fitting was George, the salesperson, not my lastmaker John. George didn't take any more note of my gait than Nicholas Templeman. The process was basically the same: he measures you, you come in for a fitting and he asks you how they feel. The process is kind of straightforward.

 

[thatshoeotaku]

Feels like, if you go to Clev, your shoes can turn out great if you get assigned to certain makers, but less great if you get someone else.

This is very true, same with John Lobb London. Don't know about the other big bespoke makers.

Yea, I find the effect is barely noticeable when you're walking because your weight essentially "straightens" out the shoes.

I don't know how they'd effect the wear pattern on your shoes though. I imagine the shoes spring back to their twisted shape when you lift up your foot, which would affect how your heel strikes the ground.

Works exactly the same with a toe spring I'd say. You'd barely notice but it is there. How much it helps I don't know.

 

[thatshoeotaku]

Someone else suggested that to me, but I find the answer to be improbable and overly complicated. I just assume Clev has a lot of orders and a shortage of skilled workers. So if, after your last gets made, your shoes go down the wrong "assembly line," it gets made one way, whereas if they go another direction, they get made another way.

I'll try to see if I can dig up photos, but there were so many issues with my shoes. If, by chance, the twisted last -- both in make and last -- went hand in hand with all those other issues, it would be ... surprising. I know two people who have gone to Clev, RJ and WIll from ASW. Their shoes look great, just like you'd expect with high-end bespoke. Foo also went to Clev, but I don't know him as well (photos of his Clevs seem fine). But on my pair, I had Kirby's twisted last issue, some gap between the outsole and upper, a last that didn't fit, scraped up soles (for some weird reason), and other make issues. What's the probability that all those things go hand in hand?

And anyway, my shoes have the twisted last, and the only person present at my fitting was George, the salesperson, not my lastmaker John. George didn't take any more note of my gait than Nicholas Templeman. The process was basically the same: he measures you, you come in for a fitting and he asks you how they feel. The process is kind of straightforward.

You could try Japanese bespoke if you can have time. I know some of the shoes are outsourced to Japanese makers anyway. Difference in price might even cover your round trip ticket.

 

[greenhouse]

Why not just ask him? He responds to some yt comments and is on sf, still. Far easier than all this speculating. @kirbya

 

[dieworkwear]

You could try Japanese bespoke if you can have time. I know some of the shoes are outsourced to Japanese makers anyway. Difference in price might even cover your round trip ticket.

The stuff I've seen online looks nice, but I think I'm sticking with Nicholas for my next few orders. At the moment, the only shoes left on my list are: a black pair of side zips, possibly brown side zips, and one or two pairs of loafers. I wanted to try Sebastian Tarek in London for the black side zips cause he has this dark "house style" (if you can call it that). But he doesn't visit San Francisco, so I went with Nicholas for that order. These are Sebastian's boots:

A lot of the stuff I see from Japan is either classic workwear, like engineer boots, or very dressy. I don't have much use for either of those kinds of shoes, although they look nice online.