Suit construction basic questions

[TheChihuahua]

I know what the definition of canvas, half canvas and fused suits are, and I have heard plenty about the pinch test.
but I’m always afraid to do the pinch test because if a suit is fused, won’t the pinch test potentially pull/Unglue the outerlayer from the lining?

so today I took two suits that are too big and haven’t been worn in a while, was going to toss them, instead I cut them open.

first one is a low price lauren suit, Macy’s type purchase. I actually liked the suit a lot, found it wore well and was super comfortable.
but I always assumed it was a fused suit? Aren’t all those lauren and hifiger and boss suits at Macy’s fused?

it appears there is a half a canvas that goes just down to the button holes.

it did not appear to be glued to the front layer of fabric. There was a little mit of stitching that ran vertically down, but it didn’t feel like any glue or pulling or anything like that?

maybe I am just struggling to identify the characteristics of the lining in a fused or canvassed sense?

 

[mhip]

I'd try tagging @Despos

Oops...look what I did.

 

[TheChihuahua]

The next one is a brooks brothers factory outlet 346. Probably have had this for 10+ years and it’s taken a beating and always held up well.
I always assumed it was a half canvas

it appears to have the floating middle lining, it was not glued to the front material, just some very light vertical stitching.

very similar to the lauren.

View attachment 1599498

 

[TheChihuahua]

I'd try tagging @Despos

Oops...look what I did.

good idea. I actually re-posted this in the tailor thread.

 

[breakaway01]

A classic post that is well worth reading:

Canvas and suit construction

A few years ago I wrote a post about canvas suit construction which some of you may remember. As a continuation of the featured articles on Style Forum I thought I would update and condense some of the information to reflect current trends in manufacturing, and also to bring the information to...

www.styleforum.net

people often think that a "fully canvassed" or "half-canvassed" suit cannot have any fusing in it. The reality is that a half-canvas suit typically has fusing down the jacket fronts, and some fully canvassed suits have a very light ("skin") fusing if the fabric is light, though most fully canvassed suits have no fusible.

The black material running down the fronts of the Lauren Ralph Lauren suit is fusing.

The canvas in the chest might be a "floating chest piece" in a fully fused suit. My understanding (but I may be wrong) is that in a fully fused suit, the canvas does not extend into the lapel, while in a half-canvas suit the canvas extends into the lapel.

Pinch test works if you feel in the lower part of the jacket -- you will feel a floating canvas layer in a fully canvassed jacket. You shouldn't be able to pull the fusible away from the fronts if it is properly bonded.

 

[TheChihuahua]

A classic post that is well worth reading:

Canvas and suit construction

A few years ago I wrote a post about canvas suit construction which some of you may remember. As a continuation of the featured articles on Style Forum I thought I would update and condense some of the information to reflect current trends in manufacturing, and also to bring the information to...

www.styleforum.net

people often think that a "fully canvassed" or "half-canvassed" suit cannot have any fusing in it. The reality is that a half-canvas suit typically has fusing down the jacket fronts, and some fully canvassed suits have a very light ("skin") fusing if the fabric is light, though most fully canvassed suits have no fusible.

The black material running down the fronts of the Lauren Ralph Lauren suit is fusing.

The canvas in the chest might be a "floating chest piece" in a fully fused suit. My understanding (but I may be wrong) is that in a fully fused suit, the canvas does not extend into the lapel, while in a half-canvas suit the canvas extends into the lapel.

Pinch test works if you feel in the lower part of the jacket -- you will feel a floating canvas layer in a fully canvassed jacket. You shouldn't be able to pull the fusible away from the fronts if it is properly bonded.

i am sorry, I am still a little confused.
Are you saying that the thin black layer of fabric with the red arrow is the “fused” portion?

I thought That with a fused construction it was the white layer would be glued to the front material?

thanks a lot for the help.

 

[Despos]

Breakaway is correct. You can see the black fusing on the cloth you lifted away to see the chest piece. Both jackets are done the same way.
Half canvass construction is a fused jacket front with a chest piece added.
full canvass and the chest piece aren’t fused in place.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Breakaway is correct. You can see the black fusing on the cloth you lifted away to see the chest piece. Both jackets are done the same way.
Half canvass construction is a fused jacket front with a chest piece added.
full canvass and the chest piece aren’t fused in place.

thanks a lot for the info.

taking a closer look, I see both have a black lining that is not the same piece of material as the front/outer material of the suit.
to the touch it is indistinguishable (in terms of the connectivity of the two fabrics).

so If I have this correct, both these jackets are “half canvassed” which in turn still uses a fused layer between the white canvas and the outer material of the suit?

so a full canvas will not have any inner layer at all fused to the out material?

and a fully fused suit, it won’t even have that white floating layer?

 

[Despos]

Half canvass is a fully fused construction. With a canvass chest piece. Fusing is bonded to the cloth with adhesives. It’s not a separate layer, it becomes a backing on the cloth

 

[breakaway01]

thanks a lot for the info.

taking a closer look, I see both have a black lining that is not the same piece of material as the front/outer material of the suit.
to the touch it is indistinguishable (in terms of the connectivity of the two fabrics).

so If I have this correct, both these jackets are “half canvassed” which in turn still uses a fused layer between the white canvas and the outer material of the suit?

so a full canvas will not have any inner layer at all fused to the out material?

and a fully fused suit, it won’t even have that white floating layer?

Yes the black material is glued to the fabric -- you shouldn't be able to separate it from the fabric.

You might find a very thin/light fusing on fully canvassed jackets if the fabric is very light -- this helps to stabilize the fabric.

A fully fused suit can have a canvas chest piece. It does not extend into the lapel, however. Did you actually read the post that I linked?

 

[TheChihuahua]

Sorry I missed the post that you linked. Will check it out now. Thanks for pointing it out

 

[TheChihuahua]

Yes the black material is glued to the fabric -- you shouldn't be able to separate it from the fabric.

You might find a very thin/light fusing on fully canvassed jackets if the fabric is very light -- this helps to stabilize the fabric.

A fully fused suit can have a canvas chest piece. It does not extend into the lapel, however. Did you actually read the post that I linked?

thanks again for linking that thread. Really clears it up.
It’s funny, you google the topic and they have all those drawings of what the difference is, but none of them talk about the fusible skin or the fused actually having a floating canvas layer that is just smaller.

I always had a vision of the fused suits having that canvas glued to the front and that’s why after so many wears it just starts bubbling.

 

[breakaway01]

Not speaking you to personally, but lots of people here talk up how important full canvas construction is, or how terrible fusing is, without really understanding what they are and how/why they are used. Glad you are learning something.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Not speaking you to personally, but lots of people here talk up how important full canvas construction is, or how terrible fusing is, without really understanding what they are and how/why they are used. Glad you are learning something.

and certain brands have recognized this and use it as a marketing gimmick.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Half canvass is a fully fused construction. With a canvass chest piece. Fusing is bonded to the cloth with adhesives. It’s not a separate layer, it becomes a backing on the cloth

Trying to understand the technical aspect of this then. Is it fair to say that there is a canvass layer, but it is secured with an adhesive vs. sewn in?

When we see the term “floating canvass”, does that then imply that it is sewn in vs. glued?