Shoe Damage Report & Appreciation Central - Part I

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by RIDER

They are not corrected grain. Of course, I have never heard of Antiqued Nubuck before either.....
In a way, "˜antique Nubuck' is corrected grain, just as is Nubuck, but not as we usually use the term.

Nubuck is a leather, where the grain is sanded off, leaving a suede-type, matte surface. C&J's "˜antique Nubuck' has that matte leather coated with wax under pressure, to achieve a high shine (rather like pomade, all your hair strands get stuck together to produce a shining helmet of hair). It's essentially a copy of classic "˜waxed calf"˜, where the flesh side (usually matte) gets waxed and polished with a shoe bone, to achieve a shiny, mirror surface.

Remember a season or two ago, all the fashionable Italian brands offered suede shoes with the tip of the shoe darker and shiny. Same principle, the suede gets waxed and the hairs stick together and take on a shiny look.

 

[sysdoc]

Thanks Bengal-Stripe.

Why did I not say "these shoes suck"? ... Because I have the same pair. I had a major discussion with C&J officials at the factory about what they call "nubuck" and thought they were alright for bad weather.

However, once I tried polishing them I had to learn that this "nubuck" does not react like normal grain leather. It reacts 100% like grain corrected leather. You apply polish to a layer of artificial material and not to the actual leather.

FWIW Manton? A Machiavellian Approach to Shoes maybe?

 

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by bengal-stripe

In a way, "˜antique Nubuck' is corrected grain, just as is Nubuck, but not as we usually use the term.

Nubuck is a leather, where the grain is sanded off, leaving a suede-type, matte surface. C&J's "˜antique Nubuck' has that matte leather coated with wax under pressure, to achieve a high shine (rather like pomade, all your hair strands get stuck together to produce a shining helmet of hair). It's essentially a copy of classic "˜waxed calf"˜, where the flesh side (usually matte) gets waxed and polished with a shoe bone, to achieve a shiny, mirror surface.

Remember a season or two ago, all the fashionable Italian brands offered suede shoes with the tip of the shoe darker and shiny. Same principle, the suede gets waxed and the hairs stick together and take on a shiny look.

Filthy habit, that.

 

[Roikins]

Originally Posted by sysdoc

Thanks Bengal-Stripe.

Why did I not say "these shoes suck"? ... Because I have the same pair. I had a major discussion with C&J officials at the factory about what they call "nubuck" and thought they were alright for bad weather.

However, once I tried polishing them I had to learn that this "nubuck" does not react like normal grain leather. It reacts 100% like grain corrected leather. You apply polish to a layer of artificial material and not to the actual leather.

FWIW Manton? A Machiavellian Approach to Shoes maybe?


That's interesting to know... any special considerations then when I decide to polish the shoes because of that waxy layer? I've worn it a few times for break-in, but I figured I'll polish it up when the weather starts getting bad around here.

 

[edmorel]

 

[chobochobo]

^
gorgeous sutor monks and suede nostros

Who makes those boots?

 

[RIDER]

In a way, "˜antique Nubuck' is corrected grain, just as is Nubuck, but not as we usually use the term.

Nubuck is a leather, where the grain is sanded off, leaving a suede-type, matte surface. C&J's "˜antique Nubuck' has that matte leather coated with wax under pressure, to achieve a high shine (rather like pomade, all your hair strands get stuck together to produce a shining helmet of hair). It's essentially a copy of classic "˜waxed calf"˜, where the flesh side (usually matte) gets waxed and polished with a shoe bone, to achieve a shiny, mirror surface.

No - not at all, sorry. Nubuck is buffed grain, not removed grain.

Corrected grain is where the grain is removed (either completely or partially), a pigment coat applied, hair cell or other 'faux' grain techniques applied and then finished again....or again, and again and again.

Any defects in the grain will be as readily apparent in Nubuck as they will in any analine finished top-grain calf. Also, very few of even the highest quality leathers available anymore do not have some sort of 'grain fixing' techniques applied. You might say that it is 'altered' calf, but not 'corrected'.

I think this is just, as you point out, a variation of waxed calf. I'm even going to guess the tannery - Haas in France. Someone should ask next time in the shop...they might say. My point is, the purchaser should not feel like he bought some sort of 'defected' material, and this is exactly what the reply from Sysdoc sounded like - whether he thought so or not.

 

[chobochobo]

Thanks for the clarification. Shame I never got in on the Cordovan project.

 

[bengal-stripe]

Originally Posted by RIDER

You might say that it is 'altered' calf, but not 'corrected'.
Fine, so let's call it 'altered'.

That's why I said its "in a way corrected....but not as we usually use the term",.....i.e. it is leather that has been interfered with; Nubuck is the product of technical manipulations, that 'corrects', 'alters', 'changes' (call it what you will) the natural look to the desired look.

I still think, it's a way to give those old cows a bit of a face-lift.

 

[edmorel]

Originally Posted by chobochobo

^
gorgeous sutor monks and suede nostros

Who makes those boots?

Martegani

 

[chobochobo]

Originally Posted by edmorel

Martegani

See? I said it was a shame I didn't get in on 'Rider's cordovan project.

 

[RIDER]

That's why I said its "in a way corrected....but not as we usually use the term",.....i.e. it is leather that has been interfered with; Nubuck is the product of technical manipulations, that 'corrects', 'alters', 'changes' (call it what you will) the natural look to the desired look.

Considering that the 'natural' look includes 4 legs, 4 hooves, a head and hair I would say all process take us from the 'natural look to the desired look'.

When I say 'altered' I do not say 'interfered' with....simply taking a perfectly good calfskin and buffing the grain to give it a different purpose....not a smaller degree of correction. There are not 'technical manipulations', it is simply buffed.

 

[RIDER]

Oh, and Bengal-Stripe, this is just a gentlemanly disagreement over a simple term...I respect your knowledge a great deal....I just don't like Sysdocs' snotty reply.

 

[Virginia Dandy]

Originally Posted by edmorel

I have a pair of Martegani chukkas that are identical to these (except in antiqued burgundy). Props to Ron Rider.

Looking forward to pulling them out once things get a bit more autumnal here in Richmond.

 

[sysdoc]

Originally Posted by RIDER

They are not corrected grain.

Originally Posted by RIDER

Oh, and Bengal-Stripe, this is just a gentlemanly disagreement over a simple term...I respect your knowledge a great deal....I just don't like Sysdocs' snotty reply.
We know it takes greatness to admit one was wrong and to apologize to the person whose words were prematurely put into question. Why not attack the person instead? You have never even seen these shoes while I have handled them extensively. Weasel out of this issue by calling it a "gentlemanly disagreement over a simple term". That will still not make you a gentleman.