POLL: Is Eidos Napoli an Italian or an American brand ?

[EliodA]



Sarchasm = The gulf between the author and the reader who just doesn't get it.

It's sarcasm ...

 

[Kongen]

The main point in this discussion about Eidos is about "true" or "non-true" branding. As a European we all laugh at Americans who buy a Napoli brand that is not even available in Napoli (or Naples). Then at Styleforum the brands CEO defends it by claiming the brand has ex numbers of employees in Napoli. And the poor wanker calls me "silly". Well.

It is, pardon my french, a ******* joke. An American trying to explain a European why he is superior when it comes to taste because he has a couple of employees outside Napoli, but defends the fact that garments are all label Napoli but only sold on his own continent.

Why can't Eidos Napoli, with their short ******* jackets and tight pants, either accept that they are an exclusive American brand made in Italy, just like H&M is an exclusive Swedish brand made in Bangladesh. Eidos has to understand that offering an online story doesn't "brand" it in to Europe. It might fool stupid Americans. But Eidos is fucked in Europe.

Being a journalist for 30 odd years covering these kind of mishaps I can't understand how Eidos can survive in Europe. It will be interesting to se how they will do in Stockholm. I wouldn't bet to much on Eidos behalf after ******* up this story. And insulting people who could have helped them.

 

[NickPollica]

OK last time I'll bite.

I have nothing against your company, Mr. Pollica. Eidos Napoli might not be my cup of tea when it comes to style, design or taste. But I am sure you have a fantastic "European" product on sale in the US. My problem is that you brand Eidos as "European" while it has in fact been virtually impossible for any European to test your product unless we physically remove ourselves from Europe to America.

Gianluca and Barbara Isaia, two Neapolitans, branded Eidos - their company - as European because they are European. Before I was hired.

We've shown the product in Milan every season and the feedback has been the same. Our lapels are too wide. Our rises are too high. We are too expensive. Nobody cares about full canvas in RTW. We should just make the garment fused and lower the price. This has been the feedback from nearly every Italian store we've shown the collection to that we think might actually pay us for the product we sell them. I would love to have wider distribution in Europe but I am not going to lower the quality or compromise on the styling elements I believe in to do so. All this said, its not as though Eidos isn't available online.

Branding is an interesting thing in a modern, digital world. On Eidos website you try to tell a "story". Storytelling is vital to any brand or product. The problem with Eidos is that your story isn't true in the sense that you are a Napoli-brand.

The "Stories" you are referencing on our site have nothing to do with us trying to convince people we are a "Napoli brand." I call each seasonal collection a story because I start every season thinking about a specific person and place. The first was about William Klien's photographs of Rome. The second was about the history of artisanship in Florence. The third was about fishermen in Ischia and the fourth was about Robert Capa in post world war two Naples. These stories are the visual representations of what has inspired me, not an attempt to trick people into giving us undue Naples street cred. We don't need that - 65% percent of the clothes we sell are produced there and the company's owners live there.

Who would dare to tell an online story that they sell North Pole ice-cubes if they aren't even represented close to Polar areas? To me Eidos way of branding is close a scam. Probably a great product for those who enjoy too short jackets and tight fits, but from Napoli?! Yeah!?

Please see above.

H&M is from Bangladesh now, are they? But they are also a Swedish brand. They don't brand themselves as from Stockholm. H&M hasn't got much respect in my world. But at least they don't claim to be from Dhaka.

You call me "silly", Pollica. Well, the last time I was in Napoli it was impossible to get hold of any garment branded Eidos, Napoli. I rest my case. Eidos is as American as can be. Get well soon.

I didn't call you silly. I called your point silly once presented with the facts of the reality of how the company is structured. It is silly to call a company who ownership is Italian, who produces everything they make in Italy and who's employees are 99% Italian "American" because it employs two Americans and exports its product to America because its where they have the opportunity to be successful. I didn't make this personal. I gave you the facts and you ignored them.

 

[Kongen]

I give up. Eidos is of course Italian. It is a proud product of Italy. I am just amazed that nobody seem to understand the true value of a true company. Eidos is a scam. Shame, because you could have survived this with a bit of honesty and grace.

 

[unbelragazzo]



I give up. Eidos is of course Italian. It is a proud product of Italy. I am just amazed that nobody seem to understand the true value of a true company. Eidos is a scam. Shame, because you could have survived this with a bit of honesty and grace.

Sometimes when nobody seems to understand something the same way you do, it's a good idea to think about whether you're the one who has misunderstood. Antonio has been remarkably patient and honest with you and this thread. How many other brands are going to post that much info about their production and corporate structure on an Internet forum? I think that transparency is valuable. Whether a brand is "truly Italian," whatever that means to you, is not.

 

[cyc wid it]

CM is an amazing place.

 

[dirnelli]

This thread is facsinating to follow, I've created a monster, now running loose...

I want to thank @NickPollica for joining in the discussion, I think his explanations were very clear and transparent. It's great when brands join forum discussions to defend their positions, I think we ought to respect that, and encourage more of it, possibly by dialling-down the name-calling, otherwise we'll no longer see brands willing to engage in online discussions. (The brands I speak to on a daily basis are always sitting on the fence about whether they should engage with consumers via the fora, I can understand why they would be hesitant, judging from the tone of certain threads -- some folks need to grow up and learn to have civilzed conversations, the endless irony & insults gets old fast.)

Personally, Antonio's arguments have convinced me that we can speak of an Italian brand regarding Eidos Napoli, simply because its italian roots and heritage seem authentic and backed up by some tangible facts. More power to him that he's able to leverage all this to the brands advantage, for marketing and storytelling purposes -- isn't that the name of the game when trying to build-up a global brand like he is?

I really liked @jedwards cross-cultural reading of American vs. European attitudes towards national origin, that seems to explain well the split vote we're getting in the poll.

I'm glad I started this thread and this poll, because they prove in retrospect that there was no consensus, and indeed matter for debate.

I personally think that Eidos Napoli can make it as a brand in Europe, I'm glad we found out that it's in the works. Antonio is absolutely right to target London and Scandi first, as the French, Italian and Spanish markets will be tougher to crack. I really enjoyed reading his account of the responses he got from Italian distributors after shows in Milan. Now that was real useful and interesting info, of the kind we'd like to read more often on SF, if threads didn't so often get derailed.

I was also reassured to read that Antonio was as surprised as we were by the Esquire video that set this whole debate into motion.

The only thing missing from this debate to make it perfect would be the long-awaited return of a comment by @voxsartoria who promissed us a contribution on Twitter.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Seriously, I don't see why it's so difficult. A brand's identity is mainly determined by its heritage, its origins. The name is not relevant. Neither where it is sold or produced.

I'm totally with Nick on this, in fact I don't even think there's even a serious question here in the specifics, although lots of more interesting general discussion has emerged around it - as well as a slightly deranged troll or two.*

But I do have to take issue with this series of statements. A brand is not the same as a company or an manufacturer. A company or manufacturer may indeed have heritage and genuine origins. A 'brand' is nothing but image, it's a series of associations designed to conjure the impression of a lifestyle or a whole worldview in some cases. A brand doesn't even have to be for anything concrete or material. If it has 'heritage', this is also a narrative and its 'real' origins do not matter in the slightest if the narrative convinces enough people.

Oh yeah, and not everything is a brand, despite the brand marketing folks' attempts to convince the world otherwise.

*PS: for someone earlier who seemed to imply I was an Eidos 'fanboi' - I own no Eidos clothing nor do I ever intend to buy any. I do have one Isaia (summer, cotton) suit and I'm very pleased with it. But that's about it.

 

[Robs89]

My take on this is that Eidos Napoli is an Italian brand as @NickPollica has tried to explain various times in this thread. As Antonio have already tried to explain is that it's only himself and Quinton that are Americans. All products are made in Italy, the design is Italian and they use mostly Italian fabrics which adds to the origin of the brand. The owners are Italian which I can confirm because of various meeting with these guys in Florence during Pitti Uomo. Just because the creative director (Antonio) is American and that most of the products are sold in the US doesn't automatically make it an American brand. It's the origin of the brand that matters, which in this case is Italian.

Let's discuss some other examples. Zara is a brand from Spain, which produce garments in countries all over the world. The brand and the owners are still from Spain which makes them a Spanish brand because of their origin. Another one is the Swedish brand Eton, a brand which produces most of their garments in Europe but also in Sweden. The brand started in Sweden and the owners are Swedes which makes Eton a Swedish brand.

 

[venividivicibj]

Case in point: Liverano's #2, Takahiro Osaki, is Japanese. Two other key members of his production team are Armenian and Korean by birth. Would Liverano's work be more or less Florentine if his staff all hailed from Florence?

You could also ask this about Sartoria Corcos, who's team is all Japanese IIRC.