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J FitzPatrick Appreciation Thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by culverwood, Apr 12, 2013.

  1. The Shoe Snob

    The Shoe Snob Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    It would be silly of me to begrudge someone else for their preference. I respect other peoples opinions and ideas. My response was not actually directed at you but your prior comments did make me feel that like you there may be others who are curious to know so i simply thought that i should shed some light as to the "why".

    as per those other brands well you see there are multiple reasons why they can sell at a lower pricepoint. I wont speak for the other brands at all but rather just tell you the things about the industry that others wont as for me it is very important that the customer knows the truth.

    first and foremost they are direct-to-customer retailers. They have purposely cut out their wholesale margin to sell shoes directly to the customer and at a lower price. That also means that you will never see them stocked at any other retailer. its one way of doing business but it is a big risk as if you dont do enough marketing to grow your brand internationally you will always be small...and both of those brands you mentioned are tiny...in fact i had never even heard of Andrew Lock. When you use the word "survive" that summed it right up for me. I dont simply want to survive. I would like to thrive.

    Secondly just because a brand is making their shoes at an English factory does not mean that they are making the same quality as English brand's house label. When I looked at the AL website I got this feeling... should this be true this also allows them to keep the prices lower

    Thirdly many of the brands that use C&J to make their shoes, such as Shipton & Heneage, to me just look like C&J with their name stamped inside which also keeps the costs down as there is no tooling costs associated with making their shoes. They just have to pay for the stamp of their logo to put on the sock liner. Tooling costs are expensive and add a significant price to each of your shoes. All of my shoes and lasts ( with the exception of my Marcos model's last which i will soon stop using) were created from scratch, which means that they all have to go through rounds of sampling and thus incur high tooling costs. Not to mention all the lasts that have to be made which also bears weight (no pun intended)

    As you see there are many things to the shoe industry that the common person will never know and things really arent as black and white as they may appear

    Lastly I dont personally believe that British shoes at this pricepoint are really that much better than Spanish shoes. In fact I feel Carmina shoes to be superior to C&J benchgrade and they are £50 less. I took it upon myself by using my brand to hopefully dispel this idea that Spanish made shoes are inferior to those of Britian and Italy as I believe that this theory no longer holds ground in the modern day. (not as this pricepoint of shoes anyway). And as each day goes on i try to make my shoes better. And my Spanish factory allows me to tell them things that will make them better. An English factory would have never allowed that

    Things in the modern day have changed and while i personally love English made shoes I felt that for my brand, due to all of the reason expressed in these last two posts, it would be more beneficial to look elsewhere, somewhere that would allow me to do what i wanted and be hands on with

    Sincerely

    Justin
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
    6 people like this.
  2. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Justin - most informative indeed - thanks.
     
  3. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    I second that. I always like active participation of the brand itself, or Justin in this case. It's good to see he is just as willing to share his knowledge online as he is in person.
     
  4. Stirling

    Stirling Senior member

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    Thanks Justin as others have said, I'll pop in and see you at TE in April. :)
     
  5. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum Senior member

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    Didn't realize the shoe snob is so anti-English shoe makers. You wouldn't realize it from his blog, there you'd think he is anti-Italian.
     
  6. The Shoe Snob

    The Shoe Snob Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Glad that you enjoyed my post, thanks as always for support!


    My ultimate goal is to see men wearing better shoes and its a lofty goal so i try my hardest to share what i can, where I can and as much as i can


    Will look forward to your visit!



    you either CLEARLY dont really read the blog or you just like to stir things up and i think they call that being a troll on here...and also you clearly did not read well what i wrote earlier as i explicitly wrote that i love English shoes and not to mention the fact that i know personally many of the brands in england
     
  7. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Was this meant to be a joke? Try smilies next time.
     
  8. rc121

    rc121 Senior member

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    did we read the same post? I didnt read that he's anti-english shoemakers, just that he has specific reasons as to why he would not use them for his line of shoes.
     
  9. JubeiSpiegel

    JubeiSpiegel Senior member

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  10. labravajazz

    labravajazz Senior member

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    One can only wonder is BeachBum incapable of reading or is has he got some undisclosed agenda re Justin? Shoe Snob blog is very inclusive of lots of makers of varied styles and countries of origin. Dedicated to his genuine interest in great shoes. What's to hate about that?!
     
  11. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum Senior member

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    Wow sue me for saying several negative things about the shoe snob, which by the way that name alone could be seen as being offensive. I stated earlier I like his blog if you have your blinders on and didn't read it all.

    I also said his blog is very biased towards the praise of bespoke and English and Asian makers in particular. Then I read the stuff (BS if you ask me) here about English makers now being inferior in certain areas and so I make a few comments. Sue me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2014
  12. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum Senior member

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    Last time I checked the Watch Snob takes tons of flak, rightfully so since he calls himself the snob. Yet here I comment the shoe snob makes ugly shoes and a few other comments and it's too offensive for people to handle. The shoe snob, ha.
     
  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    FWIW, "snob" or "snab" (Scots) is an old slang term for shoemaker.

    FWIW....
     
    4 people like this.
  14. Verrihappy

    Verrihappy Senior member

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    Justin, did or did you not pay for the G & G bespoke shoes? Btw, you seem to imply that Andrew Lock's private label Cheaneys are made to a lower spec, when I see them as just re-badged Imperials.
     
  15. Verrihappy

    Verrihappy Senior member

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    ".And my Spanish factory allows me to tell them things that will make them better. An English factory would have never allowed that

    Things in the modern day have changed and while i personally love English made shoes I felt that for my brand, due to all of the reason expressed in these last two posts, it would be more beneficial to look elsewhere, somewhere that would allow me to do what i wanted and be hands on with

    Sincerely

    Justin"

    Of course. Any self respecting Northampton factory will not listen to the blabbering of a shoe shine guy turned cordswainer/shoe stylist wannabe. And Shipton is not tiny, at least compared to you. And they have a boutique in France, Matthew Cookson, with styles while not to my taste, but certainly classier than yours.

    Btw, since you were kicked out of G & H, whose your retailer that you need to mark up your shoes for?
     
  16. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I've talked to a fair number of people in the clothing and footwear industry at this point, and have absolutely never found anyone as open and honest about the business in general and his own products in particular as Justin.

    It's not some big secret his shoes are made in Spain. It says so right on his website. He even tells you where he sources his leather. That he would come to this thread and respond to some obvious trolling in a measured and articulate way, to me, shows his integrity even more.

    And, by the way, I'm still enjoying the Laurelhursts Justin gave me. Wore them today in fact.
     
    5 people like this.
  17. RogerP

    RogerP Senior member

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    Well said. Looks like some trolls have found a new pet project. Haters gonna hate.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. The Shoe Snob

    The Shoe Snob Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    While i can't truly speak for others I believe that they, like myself, could care less if you like my shoes or not...but I believe the backlash received was more about your attitude and the anti comments. Your comments about liking my blog were also backhanded "more so because there is nothing else like it" so in reality the only real positive thing you said was about my passion being evident

    FYI the only things that I am anti is:

    1. Brands that lie to sell their shoes, using words such as "Handmade," "Bespoke," when they are neither and the fact that many of your favorite English and Italian brands may not actually make the entirety of the shoe in the country that you believe them to -- this is not hearsay, it has been written about it by reputable publications. (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/jun/26/globalisation.features11), as well as brands saying things like 'a pair of shoes take 8-12 weeks to make' and that they 'stay on the last for a month' etc...it's all crap
    2. Bad quality shoes that try to pass off as high quality
    3. Basically anything that is dishonest and believe me there is a lot of dishonesty in the industry

    If you truly read the blog, you would see that I actually studied shoemaking in Italy and have written many posts in praise about my teacher, the late Stefano Bemer. I have written a million times with nothing but praise about Riccardo Bestetti, said that I find it sad that good brands like Scarpe di Bianco are underrated and also about how much I love Bontoni. Not to mention all the rest.....

    Have you not seen how often I also write about Saint Cripsins (Austrian Brand/Romanian Made) as well as the countless posts about French Shoemakers...and patina artists and singaporean shoemakers and Laszlo Vass....the list goes on

    So you see, I don't just ride the train of England and Japan but do celebrate great shoemaking where it is due and can't help but have favorites.

    But it still stands that I believe that the idea of "Made in England" or "Made in Italy" actually meaning something significant these days is simply an illusion as both countries make loads of crappy shoes too, not JUST good ones.


    The thing that I like about people like you is that your ego is so big you probably think that your very sad attempts at getting under my skin and talking bad about me actually bothers me. Why would it? I actually find it amusing and smile each time I read a negative comment such as yours, as in reality it only makes me want to try harder at my goals to prove the naysayers like you wrong so that you won't have a leg to stand on in the future when I do make it successfully. So keep up the negative commentary, it's only you making yourself look bad.....

    Now to answer your questions/comments.

    Whether or not I have paid for my G&G bespoke shoes is really none of your business nor should it be any of your concern. The point in which I believe you are trying to imply is whether or not I write the truth if given a pair of shoes. Well Mr. Happy I always tell the truth (or my unbiased opinion) when it comes to shoes, whether I paid for them or they were free. Read some of my reviews and see for yourself. And if this was not your intent and it was more about my financial situation well that is really none of your business either. And I didn't quite understand the snide comment about not being able to pay for samples? What did you mean by that? I have a full collection of shoes so that would imply that I at one point paid for samples to be made??

    As per Andrew lock, well I believe they are in fact not made by Cheaney as one can see from soles that I have attached as a picture. Also the quality of the making does not look anything like the Imperial collection but I would not expect someone as novice as you to be able to recognize that. I was originally looking at their Spanish made shoes, which is funny because is that not what this is all about, my supposed overpriced, crappy Spanish made shoes, yet people supporting AL Spanish made shoes...HA! And if they are actually Cheaney (which I think in fact they are Alfred Sargent), then the argument still remains that they sell £5 more than them and not less as someone was implying....

    As per the rest of your derogatory comments, well to be honest, they really aren't worth a response. Have a nice time thinking of a rebuttal.

    Goodnight.

    Justin

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2014
    6 people like this.
  19. labravajazz

    labravajazz Senior member

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    Sorry to say but you obviously have never seen Cheaney Imperials if you think Andrew Lock's shoes are rebadged Imperials. If you are so certain of your assertions show us some pictures or some facts to support what you say. Hard to understand all this ill feeling - with nothing to back it up, and nothing of substance to contribute at all.
     
  20. Beach Bum

    Beach Bum Senior member

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    My comments were overly harsh and uncalled for, and am publicly retracting them here. It's wrong for an anonymous poster (me) to call out and argue with a legit poster who is going by his real name. And for that my apologies.

    The whole shoe snob deal, anti-Italian, and pro England/Japanese bespoke was where I should have stopped. That is fair teasing, and for what it's worth I do read and enjoy the blog and do believe those little jabs to some extent.

    Regarding Justin's shoe line, I was recently looking at one of his picture of the collection and there is no doubt there are some nice shoes. As it stands I am not a fan of two-tone especially when the two colors are very different (or polarizing), and as many see Justin makes a lot of these types of shoes. So if anything my negativity is directed to the style.

    I enjoy message board readings and the occasional arguments. But again as mentioned at the top here most of this was uncalled for.
     
    2 people like this.

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