Is becoming a lawyer a mistake?

[aragon765]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

^^^ No matter how you cut it though, being a life-long associate sounds like a pretty bleak proposition.

true, but I know several lawyers that are perfectly content with their balance of level of work, pay scale, and time for other interests (be they kids, vacations or trolling internet fora

). They know they will never be the rainmaker, but they are plenty happy putting in the hours, doing interesting work, and having enough time to pursue the 'rest' of their lives.

Neither good nor bad, but not everyone is in pursuit of the huge paycheck and the senior partner status. I see myself somewhere in the middle, I prefer a good balance of home life, but want to do the best I can and end up in a satisfying position in my professional life. My wife is an architect, and I am (going to be) a lawyer so we are in two professions with some of the highest divorce rates. My #1 goal is making sure I don't add to that statistic -- for better or worse, my career will suffer if it means being true to my wife/relationship.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

It's really no different from being a valued, non-management employee in many other fields. It's only a bleak proposition if you accept the BigLaw mindset that a lawyer ultimately ends up as either a partner or a failure.

I should have qualified my statement by adding "to me." I can see how some might negotiate terms beneficial to them, but it's bleak to me because I'd like to have a real stake in whatever it is I wind up doing.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I should have qualified my statement by adding "to me." I can see how some might negotiate terms beneficial to them, but it's bleak to me because I'd like to have a real stake in whatever it is I wind up doing.

Fair enough. And while my friends with such deals are satisfied with them now, given where they are in their lives and careers, it's probably not what they had in mind at the outsets of their careers, either.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by aragon765

My #1 goal is making sure I don't add to that statistic -- for better or worse, my career will suffer if it means being true to my wife/relationship.

Absolutely agreed. Family and marriage always come first.

 

[Radagast]

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[z7f9q]

Originally Posted by Radagast

Dredging up this thread. I'm looking at a making a career change and am considering applying to law school. I'm wondering what the SF members who are in/knowledgeable about the legal community think about the potential for outsourcing of legal work? Is this something you are concerned about at all?

There's only so much outsourcing that can go on in the legal profession. But sure, it has room to expand.

 

[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by Radagast

Dredging up this thread. I'm looking at a making a career change and am considering applying to law school. I'm wondering what the SF members who are in/knowledgeable about the legal community think about the potential for outsourcing of legal work? Is this something you are concerned about at all?

Why does outsourcing in particular concern you?

 

[TheFoo]

If you're thinking that you're likely to land yourself in a legal job that can be outsourced, be pretty sure you have a real passion for the law. Most lawyers don't make much money. Most of the ones who do don't do work that can be easily sent off to India.

 

[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

If you're thinking that you're likely to land yourself in a legal job that can be outsourced, be pretty sure you have a real passion for the law. Most lawyers don't make much money. Most of the ones who do don't do work that can be easily sent off to India.

I think, at least in NY, is that lawyers either make a lot or very little. No one makes the average salary. So it's an expensive gamble.

 

[crazyquik]

Originally Posted by Radagast

Dredging up this thread. I'm looking at a making a career change and am considering applying to law school. I'm wondering what the SF members who are in/knowledgeable about the legal community think about the potential for outsourcing of legal work? Is this something you are concerned about at all?

Outsourcing is real, and growing year-over-year. It will take a change to the ABA's position on ethical rules to stop it. Depending on what kind of law-work you plan on doing, it could have a small or large effect on you.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

If you're thinking that you're likely to land yourself in a legal job that can be outsourced, be pretty sure you have a real passion for the law. Most lawyers don't make much money. Most of the ones who do don't do work that can be easily sent off to India.

Actually, a lot of the ones who make significant sums of money are doing work that can be outsourced. Indian lawyers aren't going to become trial lawyers or do domestic relations work. They (as well as domestic contract attorneys) are going to replace the hordes of highly-paid biglaw associates who churn paper doing document review and production.

 

[Radagast]

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[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by Radagast

One of the concerns I have with my current position (cubicle dwelling analyst) is how easily it could be (partially) outsourced. The same goes for the position which is the next logical step for me to be promoted to. I'm looking into alternative lines of work mainly to shake things up and try something new so this isn't the only motivation for me to change careers, but I'd prefer whatever I try next to not have the same concern (or have it to a lesser degree).

As others indicated, some areas of law are too difficult to outsource, for example, real estate closings, trial lawyers....

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Actually, a lot of the ones who make significant sums of money are doing work that can be outsourced. Indian lawyers aren't going to become trial lawyers or do domestic relations work. They (as well as domestic contract attorneys) are going to replace the hordes of highly-paid biglaw associates who churn paper doing document review and production.
The due diligence and document review that junior BigLaw lawyers do is tedious, but it is also extremely important. When firms get sued, you can often trace the error back to those processes. So, I doubt outsourcing of such work will ever become very widespread. The liability risks are simply too high. Also, given the complexity of the deals and litigation that big firms typically handle, a junior associate told to look through documents is usually given only the vaguest of guidance on what to look for. I'm not sure how you can outsource work when you don't have precise instructions to give. Anyway, trial lawyers and domestic relations lawyers are not the sorts I'd aim to be if I wanted a good shot at making lots of money. The surest way to make a solid six figures is by going to a top law school, then going to work at a big firm.

 

[the.chikor]

Originally Posted by JBZ

I There are lawyers out there who genuinely love what they do, regardless of how much money they're making.


I would like to meet one! There are worse jobs that I have had and there are certain aspects that I like about the job, but I have never met a colleague or adversary who "genuinely loves what they do."

 

[crazyquik]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

The due diligence and document review that junior BigLaw lawyers do is tedious, but it is also extremely important. When firms get sued, you can often trace the error back to those processes. So, I doubt outsourcing of such work will ever become very widespread. The liability risks are simply too high. Also, given the complexity of the deals and litigation that big firms typically handle, a junior associate told to look through documents is usually given only the vaguest of guidance on what to look for. I'm not sure how you can outsource work when you don't have precise instructions to give.
I used to think the same thing: the liability is too high and the potential dimunition of prestige too much to risk getting sued because of an oversight by Indian attorneys. However, you can hire ten sets of eyes, or more, for the cost of one junior associate in New York. That means each document can be reviewed multiple times, and still be cheaper for the client. The Indian attorneys will be supervised by a US-licensed attorney, and given the same vague instructions. It may be a bellweather, but already o the University of Michigan's law school jobs page is a job posting in India, as a supervisor for Indian-trained legal process outsourcers. And here are some excerpts from a recent NYTimes piece on the topic: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/bu...ewanted=1&_r=1

India’s legal outsourcing industry has grown in recent years from an experimental endeavor to a small but mainstream part of the global business of law. Cash-conscious Wall Street banks, mining giants, insurance firms and industrial conglomerates are hiring lawyers in India for document review, due diligence, contract management and more. Now, to win new clients and take on more sophisticated work, legal outsourcing firms in India are actively recruiting experienced lawyers from the West. And U.S. and British lawyers — who might once have turned up their noses at the idea of moving to India or harbored an outright hostility to outsourcing legal work in principle — are re-evaluating the sector.

“This is not a blip, this is a big historical movement,” said David B. Wilkins, director of Harvard Law School’s program on the legal profession. “There is an increasing pressure by clients to reduce costs and increase efficiency,” he added, and with companies already familiar with outsourcing tasks like information technology work to India, legal services is a natural next step.

Even white-shoe [err, Magic Circle] law firms like Clifford Chance are embracing the concept. “I think the toothpaste is out of the tube,” said Mark Ford, director of the firm’s “Knowledge Center,” an office south of New Delhi with 30 Indian law school graduates who serve Clifford Chance’s global offices. Mr. Ford lived in India for six months to set up the center, and now manages it from London. “We as an industry have shown that a lot of basic legal support work can successfully be done offshore very cost effectively with no quality problems,” Mr. Ford said. “Why on earth would clients accept things going back?” Many corporations agree that outsourcing legal work, in some form or another, is here to stay.

I also think you underestimate the compensation of experienced non-Biglaw attorneys.