How do you roll? Untangle the Great Buttondown Collar Conspiracy!

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by mafoofan, Apr 10, 2013.

Which collar roll is closest to the ideal?

Poll closed Apr 17, 2013.
  1. #1

    70 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. #2

    10 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. #3

    8 vote(s)
    5.0%
  4. #4

    49 vote(s)
    30.6%
  5. #5

    23 vote(s)
    14.4%
  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    Again, this is a bit over-thinking. Even if a collar can shift shape between those three, you can still say when you like the way it looks most.

    Anyway, in my experience, there is not nearly so much variability in wear as people suggest. Ninety percent of the collar's roll is determined by factors in its manufacture and design.
     


  2. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    Thank you.

    I for one am sick of all the vacuous picture posting and ra-ra one-liners. I've gotten the strong sense that nobody knows what they're looking at most of the time. That's why Styleforum now reads like it's been directed and edited by Michael Bay.

    It's telling that most well-informed posters seem to have specific preferences when it comes to roll shape. Those that think it's all about attitude and amorphousness . . . maybe it's about time to realize what you're not seeing.
     


  3. mack11211

    mack11211 Senior member

    Messages:
    6,447
    Likes Received:
    73
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    Brooklyn USA
    

    If you want to underthink your overthinking, try a poll of actual collars in the real world next time. I know you believe each is very differently constructed as well as different in appearance since you are the artist, but in the eye of the beholder...

    The issue here is a soft, unlined collar, as opposed to something stiffer or starched.

    There is a slight excess of material to achieve the roll; it moves around.

    So the same collar design could look like 1 or 4 or 5 in the course of a day.

    To chose one as best is like choosing the 'right' point in a dance.

    Life is not a series of selfies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  4. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    But I think your premise is just false. I've had a number of different soft, buttondown collars. They do not change shape as much as others have suggested. The shape of the collar, its spread and length, the position of the buttons, etc., will exert a great deal of control over how its roll forms.

    Anyway, you're essentially identifying 1, 4 and 5 as similar. I think that's a fair judgment. That doesn't change the fact that they are still different in certain ways, allowing you to pick the one most pleasing. I never said you had to hate all the others you don't vote for.

    It seems you and some others are trying to pick a philosophical fight over what makes a buttondown collar appealing. That has nothing to do with this thread. The question is how you like your buttondown collars to look. If you have no particular preference, because you don't think the roll shape has anything to do with what makes a buttondown collar good, that's fine, but trying again and again to upend the basis of this discussion is tiring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  5. burghler

    burghler Senior member

    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    72
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    This one looks like #4 to me (though the points could be longer), which confirms my previous vote.
    #1 outward flare of the roll is too exaggerated
    #2 too understated (barely there)
    #3 would prefer a moderate spread collar without buttons
    #4 follows closely around the tie, which is aethsetically pleasing to my eye
    #5 dislike the upward curve


    Quote:
     


  6. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    Interesting thoughts. Yes, I would identify the one in the photograph as being most like #4.

    #3 is in the Italian style, in case anyone thinks that's supposed to be a secret.
     


  7. Ataturk

    Ataturk Senior member

    Messages:
    11,282
    Likes Received:
    1,621
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2008
    Most of this has been covered before, but tighter collar bands seem to produce the look people like, as does sitting higher on the neck.

    A lot of what you see is just a product of the wearer's pose at the moment it's taken, though.
     


  8. ord65

    ord65 Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Location:
    Chicago
    I quite like this which I think is closest to #1 with less "amplitude". I think the points need to be longer though...

    [​IMG]
     


  9. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    8,019
    Likes Received:
    12,995
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    I'm waiting for the exact right moment, and then will cast the decisive vote.
     


  10. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    8,019
    Likes Received:
    12,995
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    

    Depending on your definition of selfie, certain warm days as a teenage male can be though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  11. johanm

    johanm Senior member

    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    158
    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    

    Not sure if Borrelli counts as "Italian style" but their collars are narrower than #3 and with much longer points. The effect is like a slightly wider and larger scale #4. That's the BD collar I prefer.

    Also side note, in my reading about the "magic" of the old BB collar, there's a lot of emphasis on how thin and pliable the collar is compared to the current versions. Don't know if this is a function of the cloth or lining used.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


  12. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Yes, I've seen the Borrelli version. It is as you describe, an exaggerated bell shape. What I mean by "Italian style" is what it appears many Italian shirtmakers produce: a buttondown collar that is essentially a typical, soft spread collar with buttons added on.
     


  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    

    Can't judge if it's not worn.
     


  14. ord65

    ord65 Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Location:
    Chicago
    Hmmm..why not? Your asking us to judge a line drawing. But anyway...this is the same one I think:

    [​IMG]
     


  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    20,843
    Likes Received:
    2,056
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2007
    Jeezus--I don't want to sound patronizing or condescending, but you guys are capable of interpreting an illustration as a representation of reality, aren't you? You're tripping all over yourselves.

    The illustrations represent worn collars.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2013


Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by