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Edward Greens at the Polo Mansion

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Phil, Mar 10, 2005.

  1. jcusey

    jcusey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I didn't assume anything; I observed it. I'll repeat: if the shell fabric of a the front of a jacket is laminated to a lining material, that jacket is fused. Every single Polo jacket that I've ever examined has had the shell fabric of the front laminated to a lining material. If you want to explain how it's possible for a canvassed jacket to have shell fabric laminated to a lining, go right ahead.
     
  2. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    If you don't trust the pinch test -- and let me tell you, it's 100% accurate -- here's an easy way to tell whether a suit is fused (provided you have a needle and thread and know how to sew). Rip open a small hole at the bottom of the coat lining on the front of the coat (not a hole in the lining -- just cut the stitches that hold the lining to the bottom of the jacket). Pick a spot that is on the front of the coat, like directly under the hip pocket. Look into the hole, or push the fabric through the hole. In a fused suit, you will see the fusing. It's clear as day. It is normally a grayish twill like layer.

    I can guarantee you that if you do this to a RTW Blue Label suit, you will see the gray fusing. I don't know about the MTM because I've never seen a BL MTM.
     
  3. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    The suits are machine canvassed, not hand canvassed like an Oxxford; it is not going to feel the same. I don't know what machine v hand cavassing entails exactly, thought there is obviously a big quality difference, hence the upcharge of a few grand on a hand canvassed suit.

    Secondly the Polo suits don't feel like a fused suit. On a fused suit the interlining is obviously thicker and heavier; two features that are absent on any Polo blue label suit.

    Geeeze... this it turning into a tasseled loafer discussion. lol...
     
  4. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    I just won a Blue Label sportcoat off of Ebay for pretty cheap.  When I get it, I'll cut it open and snap a picture for you.  Also, a machine canvassed suit will feel precisely the same as a hand canvassed suit.

    But, Mike C., I agree with you that the fusing in a BL is almost imperceptibly thin -- as good as a semi-fused suit gets for sure.
     
  5. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    It would be cool to see the inside. However, a coat from years ago can't be compared to the ones in stores now; also all Blue Label sportcoats aren't made by Corneliani.

    What are the differences between machine and hand canvas?
     
  6. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    I think the sportcoat I got is actually newer -- a model from last year I believe. We'll see.

    As for machine versus hand: for one, I've found that a hand canvassed lapel will have a more lasting roll and will lay flatter on the chest. It holds its shape better, most likely due to the fact that when doing it by hand, the maker can get the thread tension right. Moreover, I imagine that along with hand canvassing the lapel, the maker takes greater care in the pressing. I've seen a lapel that has been canvassed by machine (i.e. seen the exposed lapel in a basted state) and hand stitching the lapel canvas is a far superior method. I'm not sure whether Polo BL does it by machine or hand, but in any event it is done very well if it is machine.

    In terms of the hand canvassing the rest of the coat, I'm not really sure what the difference would be. The canvassing is stitched in at only a few critical areas (hence the term "floating front"), so I can't see why doing it by hand would give you that much advantage. However, once again, where the canvas is placed by hand, I've found that the canvas molds to the body just a little bit better. I'd chalk this up not to the stitching though, but rather to the care that is probably also taken in molding the canvas into shape prior to stitching it into the coat.'

    Seriously though, I don't mean any knock on Blue Label. I absolutely love the cut and the fabrics are usually excellent. The are also very light and soft.
     
  7. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Senior member

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    I have a Fall '04 blue label suit, purchased from polo.com, shipped to me in what was presumably the original factory plastic bag with a printed Corneliani inventory label in Italian. The front of this suit is clearly and unmistakably fused.
     
  8. Mike C.

    Mike C. Senior member

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    Either way it's a great product... It's just that I'm going to take the guy's word for it that his product is not fused. He doesn't have any reason to lie; I'm not his customer or a vendor. I'm certainly not going to take an amature "pinch test" over his word.

    I'll be talking to the guy in a few days again, this time I'll be a bit more inqusitive about the process of machine canvassing. Until then the leading authrity says the suits aren't fused.
     
  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Ok, this is an easy problem to solve, I had a MTM RL Polo (Blue Label) 3-piece suit made last year and it is currently at the tailor. It had to be altered and opened, thus I will call my tailor tomorrow, er today (its 12:03 now) and post the results, easy enough, no?

    Jon.
     
  10. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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  11. A Harris

    A Harris Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I'm fairly certain that the only RTW suits on the US market that have the lapels pad-stitched by hand are made by Oxxford. That's not a guess, I've cut almost all of them open and looked. Everybody else does it with a machine. I once saw a double-breasted Brioni jacket that had the tips of the peak-lapel basted by hand, presumably so that they will lay better (flat) against the chest. But that's still a far cry from Oxxford. And maybe that Hickey handmade you've got johnnynorman3... Attolini could be another exception, but I highly doubt it.

    There is some handwork in the construction/tailoring of the chest canvas in high-end RTW suits, but not that much. They are basically 'machine-canvased.'
     
  12. johnnynorman3

    johnnynorman3 Senior member

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    I think you are right, Andrew. Regular Hickey's are clearly machine padded. Oxxford are definitely hand. With the demise of H. Freeman (who also did machine padding), Norman Hilton is the only American RTW maker that I know of that does full canvas work. I've never seen a Norman Hilton suit so I can't speak to those.

    I have never examined the lapels of Brioni or Kiton very closely so I can't speak to those. But you are right that doing the pad stitching by hand is very rare in RTW garments. I sort of lament this, because it is an area that really makes a notable difference when it is done by hand IMO. But if using machines mantains price reasonability, I'm willing to live with it.

    BTW, I'm about 95% certain that the Hickey Freeman I just got is pad stitched by hand.
     
  13. cloud9eleet

    cloud9eleet Senior member

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    Phil,

    How do we get the 200.00 discount? Is this a sale or a special for you?

    JW
     
  14. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    My curiosity piqued by this thread, I visited the Georgetown Polo store on Saturday to see the Polo Blue Label suits for myself.  My verdict: the suits are definitely fused.  (Indeed, it would be antithetical to what we know of Polo's pricing policy for Polo to slap its label on a fully canvassed Corneliani suit and sell the suit for less than what Corneliani charges.)  That said, the fusing is so light and well done that, in my mind, it occupies a middle ground between the fused construction of Boss and the canvassed construction of Canali.  The cut, as one would expect from Corneliani, is perfect for the young and fit.  Although I have a strong preference for canvassed suits, I would not hesitate to add a Blue Label to my suit rotation if the price was right.
     
  15. Phil

    Phil Senior member

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    The 200 discount is for a limited time, for their trunk show event. Not sure when it started or ended however.
     

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