Carmina Shoes - Definitive Thread (reviews, advice, sizing, etc...) - official thread.

[Crafty Cumbrian]

Which model is this? I particularly like the broguing and was thinking about getting some boots with a pattern.

It’s Llubi and the model is..80429 had to check!

 

[Blastwice]

What last is that Jodhpur. That is one beautiful looking boot.

Specs I found:

Model: 3930 Jodhpur Boot mod strap at ankle Last: 804 Leather: Horween Navy Shell Cordovan Construction: Hand Welted 270 deg Sole: Single Leather with Vibram Topy, Donky Back and Bombe waist Edge Finish: Mid brown Lining: Natural Calf Buckle: Nickel 5 Brass Nails at Toe

 

[Goofy]

Shell cordovan does stretch, almost as much as calf, the issue is that once it gets a tear the tensile strength is much lower meaning it’s more prone to continue to tear whereas calfskin will retain its strength everywhere around the tear. This is just a poorly lasted waist. I wouldn’t say makers account for it, more like makers last it as snug as they can, and the characteristics of shell result in about a .25 size difference give or take. Shouldn’t cause a sizing issue unless the wearer already wears shoes that are borderline too large. It also would not cause this type of rippling issue.

as far as the general topic of does shell stretch or not, and some of the myths about shell, here is a great video that speaks to most of it. And for the impatient folks, you can scrub to the 4:50 mark to see him stretch shell.

Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Let me rephrase. Generally speaking Cordovan isn’t as flexible and malleable as calf leather is. Besides that it’s not a very breathable material. Therefore it doesn’t dissipate heat very well. To compensate manufacturers tend to last cordovan shoes roomier than they would regular calfskin.
Here is a great article on the drawbacks of cordovan leather.

In-depth - The downside of shell cordovan - Shoegazing.com

There's several downsides of Shell cordovan which can be good to be aware of if you are an aspiring cordovan shoe buyer, learn more here.

shoegazing.com

And in this movie they explain why cordovan shoes are manufactured roomier than calfskin leather shoes.
Scroll to 19:05.

 

[Rekla]

There is a clear difference between shoes being roomier and having 1cm excess material like someone showed us.

 

[Goofy]

There is a clear difference between shoes being roomier and having 1cm excess material like someone showed us.

My reply had no bearing on the depicted shoes. It was in response to Yengli’s experience with loosely lasted Cordovan shoes.

 

[Rekla]

Alright.
Yes my carmina cordovan shoes in rain are a bit roomier (than my calf rain) but my carmina balmoral boots in forest are quiet tight, same for the loafers.
And nothing different for TLB for my calf and cordovan.

 

[liahos1]

My rubi’s arrived and I’m happy to say they are exactly what I was hoping for. Size 8uk fits perfectly well for me on the Robert last.

 

[DL120]

Mr Koronya himself! Kudos for real data instead of opinion.
I don't understand how this reconciles with Carmina's reluctance to do shell jodhpurs and chelseas (and I confirm, the Carmina shell chelseas I have aren't blocked as much around the instep as my jodhpurs). Perhaps the industrial blocking machine (which can block a piece of calf in 2 steps in around 10 seconds) isn't suited to shell? Maybe it helps to take more time and adjustment using a crimping board when stretching shell...

I think it’s not so much the ability to do it, but the risk/reward proposition for them, as well as the complications of the size of shell and the size of hides needed for certain patterns like Chelsea’s or Jodhpurs. You see how many pairs get posted here where there’s the smallest is discrepancy in color or something that’s not really much of an issue (not calling anyone out in particular) and they have to issue a partial refund or remake. So it can become quite expensive and a loss for them with more complicated patterns. Hence the reason they no longer offer the natural shell in the custom tool.

 

[stephenaf2003]

Trust me, I’ve had quite a few Cordovan MTO’s abandoned due to shell failure during the lasting process, on boots like Jodhpur’s and Chelsea’s. It’s particularly prone to tearing on my favorite type of shells, embossed. It’s not that shell doesn’t stretch, it’s simply that it will easily tear. As expensive as the leather is, it becomes quite an expensive proposition for the maker, as the particular shell is then a total loss.

 

[TheLawBeard]

I think it’s not so much the ability to do it, but the risk/reward proposition for them, as well as the complications of the size of shell and the size of hides needed for certain patterns like Chelsea’s or Jodhpurs. You see how many pairs get posted here where there’s the smallest is discrepancy in color or something that’s not really much of an issue (not calling anyone out in particular) and they have to issue a partial refund or remake. So it can become quite expensive and a loss for them with more complicated patterns. Hence the reason they no longer offer the natural shell in the custom tool.

I’ve heard several other makers talk about the issues with natural shell. So many people want it- but they want it to be absolutely perfect and uniform. I’ve been told (but haven’t confirmed) that horween only has a very small amount of natural shell available each year and there’s quite the demand for it. The “when I pay X for shoes I expect perfection” *really* becomes an issue with natural shell.

 

[DL120]

I’ve heard several other makers talk about the issues with natural shell. So many people want it- but they want it to be absolutely perfect and uniform. I’ve been told (but haven’t confirmed) that horween only has a very small amount of natural shell available each year and there’s quite the demand for it. The “when I pay X for shoes I expect perfection” *really* becomes an issue with natural shell.

Yeah, but it’s also part of an issue with having an educated consumer or not. It’s like saying hatch grain must be equally and uniform in texture and size of the texture throughout the entire shoe or else it’s not perfection. The reality of shell is the variation and such in shell is not a defect or a quality issue. It’s simply a characteristic of the material. So the issue is more so the consumer is not fully educated on what they’re buying and more so hoping to replicate that one perfect pair they saw on social media when that is more the exception than the rule. I mean I have pairs of shell from bespoke makers, $2500 shoes that have what some would lose their mind over if they got on a pair of carmina for $750. It’s not that I don’t have high standards, quite th opposite. But I’m very well read and informed about what it is I am buying so I have the right expectation of what is acceptable, what is normal and what is not.
I realize you do as well, but just furthering the conversation.

 

[stephenaf2003]

Yeah, but it’s also part of an issue with having an educated consumer or not. It’s like saying hatch grain must be equally and uniform in texture and size of the texture throughout the entire shoe or else it’s not perfection. The reality of shell is the variation and such in shell is not a defect or a quality issue. It’s simply a characteristic of the material. So the issue is more so the consumer is not fully educated on what they’re buying and more so hoping to replicate that one perfect pair they saw on social media when that is more the exception than the rule. I mean I have pairs of shell from bespoke makers, $2500 shoes that have what some would lose their mind over if they got on a pair of carmina for $750. It’s not that I don’t have high standards, quite th opposite. But I’m very well read and informed about what it is I am buying so I have the right expectation of what is acceptable, what is normal and what is not.
I realize you do as well, but just furthering the conversation.

^^^
This

 

[TheLawBeard]

Yeah, but it’s also part of an issue with having an educated consumer or not. It’s like saying hatch grain must be equally and uniform in texture and size of the texture throughout the entire shoe or else it’s not perfection. The reality of shell is the variation and such in shell is not a defect or a quality issue. It’s simply a characteristic of the material. So the issue is more so the consumer is not fully educated on what they’re buying and more so hoping to replicate that one perfect pair they saw on social media when that is more the exception than the rule. I mean I have pairs of shell from bespoke makers, $2500 shoes that have what some would lose their mind over if they got on a pair of carmina for $750. It’s not that I don’t have high standards, quite th opposite. But I’m very well read and informed about what it is I am buying so I have the right expectation of what is acceptable, what is normal and what is not.
I realize you do as well, but just furthering the conversation.

Right there with you on having, what I consider, reasonable expectations. As long as it isn’t something GLARINGLY awful or a structural issue (I’ve had a pair of boots from another company show up and one boot was literally twisted) then I’m far less likely to say anything.

 

[yengli]

So what’s the verdict? Should I email Carmina?

 

[Diego65]

So what’s the verdict? Should I email Carmina?

In your place for peace of mind, I email Carmina and send pictures of the boot.