Baseball playoffs

[Stu]

 I didn't think about this until reading an article on the game, but ALL 4 Red Sox homeruns in Game 7 went into the section where the Babe called his shot years ago.  The Sox are WS-bound.  I love the month of October.

I thought the called shot was in Wrigley Field against the Cubs in the '32 World Series.

 

[drizzt3117]

Quote:

but they are scraping the bottom of the barrel in their farm system and really need to figure something out as they have a huge amount of money sunk into fairly mediocre players at this point. Their starting pitching is subpar. They could rectify this on the open market. Carlos Beltran might be a pretty good addition too, as would Sosa (maybe too old and prone to petulation), but I don't know where they'd play him. I'd love to see the Giants make a run at Beltran.
The Yankees weren't able to get Randy J because they didn't have the prospects to trade. They can certainly buy superstar players on the open market, but there aren't any good left handed starters on the open market (eric milton, yawn) (al leiter, yawn x 2) I think the Sox will elect to grab Pavano over resigning lowe. Even if the yankees get Beltran, they are stuck with Giambi (who may or may not have much left, and his enormous guaranteed contract), Brown (and the remainder of his contract), Vasquez (and his contract) Loaiza (and his contract) etc... etc... Steinbrenner has alot of money but he's a businessman first and foremost, and throwing $200+ million again is only going to be worth it if they win a world series, and I think it's unlkely unless the yankees get ALOT of left-handed pitching, and ditch some of the hitters. They need to go back to the formula that had them winning in the late 90s, i.e. run creation, with good fundamental players like Paul O"Neill, Leyritz, etc.

 

[esquire.]

Don't forget Odalis Perez, although even the dodgers don't want to resign him. The Yankees need a lefty for relief, but I don't know if they really need to stockpile leftys for starting. They'd need to if they were battling Boston for the next few years. But, with Lowe and Pedro as free agents, I don't know how well Boston will be. Plus, Schilling will be one year older and you don't how he'll recover from his injury. So, you'd have a weaker lineup than the Yankees and starting pitching not that much better.

Won't Giambi's contract be covered by insurance if he can't play? Although, I think he would still count towards the luxury tax.

 

[drizzt3117]

Schilling has pitched just fine even with the injury, no worries there.

Boston will likely sign Pavano to replace Lowe and may still bring Pedro back, if not, they will likely replace him with someone else, the $15M they would be paying him will pay for someone else nicely.

I would disagree with the assertion that NY has a better lineup than the Sox, they scored FAR less runs than Boston in the regular season. If the Yankees get Beltran, you have:

Jeter
Beltran
ARod
Sheff
Matsui
Giambi
Posada
Bernie
Cairo

against:

Damon
Cabrera
Ramirez
Ortiz
Varitek
Nixon
Millar
Mueller
Bellhorn

The Yankees have plenty of power, but clutch hitting is absent, also, if they spend $20M for Beltran, they will likely not be able to sign any pitching.

With Schilling, Pavano, Arroyo, Wakefield, the Sox would have a solid core in pitching, I would certainly put them up against Mussina, Brown, Vasquez, and Lieber (We saw what happened in the WS) If the Sox get Pedro back, it will be even stronger. Also, the Sox have a significantly better bullpen than the Yankees with the exception of Rivera.

 

[drizzt3117]

I guess Pedro is the Cardinals' DADDY.

 

[christian]

What.. Yes, Boston got hot in the playoffs. This year, due to their lack of left hand pitches, the Yankees didn't match well with Boston in this series. But, let's look at it over the course of the season, the Yankees have a better team because they won their division. The Yankees lineup is filled with all stars, potential MVPs, even a few Hall of Fame players. (Curt Schilling might get in for this year's performance.) Other than Bernie Williams and Cairo, I can't think of anyone else I'd need to replace in the lineup.

Everyone is also forgetting that the Yankees can also pick up players next year during the trading deadline, as teams discard players who are too expensive. And, I don't think the Randy Johnson argument is valid. Arizona didn't want to trade him to the Yankees because of the David Wells incident. And, Arizona decided not to trade him to any team, regardless of the package they put together.

 

[drizzt3117]

christian:

With all due respect, thats BS. If the mets had offered David Wright or if the angels had made that trade offer with Kotchman and McPherson, the Dbacks would have jumped all over it. There are many other players that they would have accepted for RJ including Upton, Francis, and others, the issue was that RJ only wanted to be traded to the Yankees and he needed to agree to any potential trade.

Having a better record doesn't mean you have a better team... can anyone say the Cards were better than the Sox if they lose today? They won 17 more games during the regular season. Having all stars, MVPs, etc... in your lineup doesn't make it better, look at the hitting stats for the Sox vs the Yankees, the Sox have more runs scored and a higher BA than the $181M yankees.

They can pick up players during the trading deadline, but that's in July... they need help right away. What the yankees need to do is bite the bullet and trade one of their superstars for prospects, and rebuild their farm system, that's the only way to build another dynasty. The Sox have made some stupid trades too (freddie sanchez for suppan) but their farm system is much deeper than the Yankees.

 

[christian]

What was wrong with the package the Dodgers put together for RJ. I thought they did as much as they possible could, when they blew up their team in order to get the players necessary for a trade. If Arizona really wanted a trade, they would have made a trade even if it wasn't perfect. I felt that instead, they decided that RJ was the only player they had left who could help sell tickets. With their team, they aren't in a position to compete for a few years.

Now that you've listed the starting lineups, I'm interested to know, postion for position, which Boston players you'd take over a Yankee player. Let's look at catcher. Variteck is a good catcher with all the intangibles. Still, I'd rather have Posada.

I'm not arguing about pitching. Boston had a deeper one this year, along with a deeper bench.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

Yankees fans insist that the 2004 ALCS loss to Boston is no big deal, but christian's relentless posting on this very issue (and on the Yankees' supposed superiority) lead me to believe otherwise. Â

 

[PeterMetro]

I'm not at all worried about what the yankees do in the offseason. I just want to win one more game.

GO SOX.

 

[christian]

I can't believe everyone is critizing that the Yankees spend money to win. Who has the second highest payroll? Boston Red Sox.

 

[drizzt3117]

Positional Analysis:

LF:
Sox: Manny Ramirez
Yankees: Hideki Matsui

Sox have an obvious advantage here.

CF:
Sox: Johnny Damon
Yankees: Bernie Williams

Damon is better both defensively and offensively, buried the Yankees in game 7.

RF:

Sox: Trot Nixon
Yankees: Gary Sheffield

Sheffield is better, but Nixon is a lefty that just kills the Yankees.

1B:

Sox: Kevin Millar
Yankees: Jason Giambi

If/when Giambi comes back, he is better offensively than Millar but this is a big if. A wash.

2B:
Sox: Mark Bellhorn
Yankees: Miguel Cairo

Bellhorn is a clutch hitter and a good fielder even if he strikes out too much, definitely better offensively than Cairo. Advantage Sox

SS:
Sox: Orlando Cabrera
Yankees: Derek Jeter

Jeter is the heart of the yankees and they have an advantage here, but Cabrera is a great, clutch player, that has dominated this postseason. Advantage Yankees, but by less a margin than you may think.

3B:
Sox: Bill Mueller
Yankees: Alex Rodriguez

On paper, an advantage for the Yankees, but A-Rod has sucked it up in the post season and is terrible with men on base. This is the worst acquisition by Steinbrenner since Mondesi.

C:
Sox: Jason Varitek
Yankees: Jorge Posada

I would take Varitek in a heartbeat over Posada. Posada isn't particularly durable and his numbers are no better than Varitek, he also obviously doesn't work a staff as well as Varitek. Advantage Sox

DH:
Sox: David Ortiz
Yankees: Ruben Sierra

Huge advantage Sox

Sox win 5-3-1

Pitching: (current staffs)

Curt Schilling vs Mike Mussina

Obvious advantage Sox

Kevin Brown vs Pedro Martinez

The Yankees may be his daddy, but Pedro is much better than Brown

Bronson Arroyo vs Javier Vasquez

On paper an advantage for the Yankees but I would rather have Arroyo... I'll call this a wash though.

Derek Lowe vs Jon Lieber

Wash

Tim Wakefield vs Orlando Hernandez

Slight advantage Yankees

Sox have a better staff, and their bullpen has proven stronger as well...

 

[drizzt3117]

The Yankees are spending money and NOT winning... there's the difference.

Also, they are mortgaging their future for the present, and not winning.

 

[christian]

Are we talking about a positional analysis for a postseason matchup or for which players are better throughout the season?

You argue that Nixon kills the Yankees. But, you could also argue that Bernie Williams kills Boston in a similar fashion.

But, I can't believe you're not admitting that you'd rather have ARod. He was pressing too much this post season. But, he has the potential to be one of the greatest players of all time. So, I don't think it was a bad trade. Sure, maybe the Yankees should have used the money for pitching. But, remember, Texas subsidized the trade by agreeing to pay for part of ARod's contract. Same with the Brown trade. The dodgers picked up part of his contract. And, Brown is just as old as Schilling with just as impressive record in the postseason untill this year.

I wasn't arguing about this year's pitching staff- Boston was better.

I think people don't give Matsui enough credit. He almost never makes the wrong play. One of the most fundamentally sound players I've seen. And, this year, he started to hit for power. Manny is a defensive liability; it almost negates his offensive prowess. Isn't that why Boston tried to trade him?

What if that trade had gone through? Would Boston still be on the verge of clinching its first championship since 1918?

 

[drizzt3117]

If I were the Red Sox, I wouldn't have minded having A-Rod because the trades would have been Manny for A-Rod and Ordonez for Garciaparra, which would have worked out much better for the Sox than it did for the Yankees. Soriano put up better numbers for the Yanks than A-Rod when he was playing in NY, and I would personally rather have Soriano than A-Rod. How many good 2nd basemen are there with his offensive and defensive skills? (Hint, none)

I'm doing a head to head positional analysis, both teams are obviously good enough to make the playoffs, what really matters is how they do against each other.

Manny is not a great defensive player, but he's better than Bonds and was good enough to throw out Walker at the plate last night.

I would rather have Ordonez and A-Rod then Garciaparra and Ramirez though.