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Baseball playoffs

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by esquire., Oct 7, 2004.

  1. christian

    christian Senior member

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    What.. Yes, Boston got hot in the playoffs. This year, due to their lack of left hand pitches, the Yankees didn't match well with Boston in this series. But, let's look at it over the course of the season, the Yankees have a better team because they won their division. The Yankees lineup is filled with all stars, potential MVPs, even a few Hall of Fame players. (Curt Schilling might get in for this year's performance.) Other than Bernie Williams and Cairo, I can't think of anyone else I'd need to replace in the lineup.

    Everyone is also forgetting that the Yankees can also pick up players next year during the trading deadline, as teams discard players who are too expensive. And, I don't think the Randy Johnson argument is valid. Arizona didn't want to trade him to the Yankees because of the David Wells incident. And, Arizona decided not to trade him to any team, regardless of the package they put together.
     
  2. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    christian:

    With all due respect, thats BS. If the mets had offered David Wright or if the angels had made that trade offer with Kotchman and McPherson, the Dbacks would have jumped all over it. There are many other players that they would have accepted for RJ including Upton, Francis, and others, the issue was that RJ only wanted to be traded to the Yankees and he needed to agree to any potential trade.

    Having a better record doesn't mean you have a better team... can anyone say the Cards were better than the Sox if they lose today? They won 17 more games during the regular season. Having all stars, MVPs, etc... in your lineup doesn't make it better, look at the hitting stats for the Sox vs the Yankees, the Sox have more runs scored and a higher BA than the $181M yankees.

    They can pick up players during the trading deadline, but that's in July... they need help right away. What the yankees need to do is bite the bullet and trade one of their superstars for prospects, and rebuild their farm system, that's the only way to build another dynasty. The Sox have made some stupid trades too (freddie sanchez for suppan) but their farm system is much deeper than the Yankees.
     
  3. christian

    christian Senior member

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    What was wrong with the package the Dodgers put together for RJ. I thought they did as much as they possible could, when they blew up their team in order to get the players necessary for a trade. If Arizona really wanted a trade, they would have made a trade even if it wasn't perfect. I felt that instead, they decided that RJ was the only player they had left who could help sell tickets. With their team, they aren't in a position to compete for a few years.

    Now that you've listed the starting lineups, I'm interested to know, postion for position, which Boston players you'd take over a Yankee player. Let's look at catcher. Variteck is a good catcher with all the intangibles. Still, I'd rather have Posada.

    I'm not arguing about pitching. Boston had a deeper one this year, along with a deeper bench.
     
  4. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    Yankees fans insist that the 2004 ALCS loss to Boston is no big deal, but christian's relentless posting on this very issue (and on the Yankees' supposed superiority) lead me to believe otherwise. Â [​IMG]
     
  5. PeterMetro

    PeterMetro Senior member

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    I'm not at all worried about what the yankees do in the offseason. I just want to win one more game.

    GO SOX.
     
  6. christian

    christian Senior member

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    I can't believe everyone is critizing that the Yankees spend money to win. Who has the second highest payroll? Boston Red Sox.
     
  7. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    Positional Analysis:

    LF:
    Sox: Manny Ramirez
    Yankees: Hideki Matsui

    Sox have an obvious advantage here.

    CF:
    Sox: Johnny Damon
    Yankees: Bernie Williams

    Damon is better both defensively and offensively, buried the Yankees in game 7.

    RF:

    Sox: Trot Nixon
    Yankees: Gary Sheffield

    Sheffield is better, but Nixon is a lefty that just kills the Yankees.

    1B:

    Sox: Kevin Millar
    Yankees: Jason Giambi

    If/when Giambi comes back, he is better offensively than Millar but this is a big if. A wash.

    2B:
    Sox: Mark Bellhorn
    Yankees: Miguel Cairo

    Bellhorn is a clutch hitter and a good fielder even if he strikes out too much, definitely better offensively than Cairo. Advantage Sox

    SS:
    Sox: Orlando Cabrera
    Yankees: Derek Jeter

    Jeter is the heart of the yankees and they have an advantage here, but Cabrera is a great, clutch player, that has dominated this postseason. Advantage Yankees, but by less a margin than you may think.

    3B:
    Sox: Bill Mueller
    Yankees: Alex Rodriguez

    On paper, an advantage for the Yankees, but A-Rod has sucked it up in the post season and is terrible with men on base. This is the worst acquisition by Steinbrenner since Mondesi.

    C:
    Sox: Jason Varitek
    Yankees: Jorge Posada

    I would take Varitek in a heartbeat over Posada. Posada isn't particularly durable and his numbers are no better than Varitek, he also obviously doesn't work a staff as well as Varitek. Advantage Sox

    DH:
    Sox: David Ortiz
    Yankees: Ruben Sierra

    Huge advantage Sox

    Sox win 5-3-1

    Pitching: (current staffs)

    Curt Schilling vs Mike Mussina

    Obvious advantage Sox

    Kevin Brown vs Pedro Martinez

    The Yankees may be his daddy, but Pedro is much better than Brown

    Bronson Arroyo vs Javier Vasquez

    On paper an advantage for the Yankees but I would rather have Arroyo... I'll call this a wash though.

    Derek Lowe vs Jon Lieber

    Wash

    Tim Wakefield vs Orlando Hernandez

    Slight advantage Yankees

    Sox have a better staff, and their bullpen has proven stronger as well...
     
  8. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    The Yankees are spending money and NOT winning... there's the difference.

    Also, they are mortgaging their future for the present, and not winning.
     
  9. christian

    christian Senior member

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    Are we talking about a positional analysis for a postseason matchup or for which players are better throughout the season?

    You argue that Nixon kills the Yankees. But, you could also argue that Bernie Williams kills Boston in a similar fashion.

    But, I can't believe you're not admitting that you'd rather have ARod. He was pressing too much this post season. But, he has the potential to be one of the greatest players of all time. So, I don't think it was a bad trade. Sure, maybe the Yankees should have used the money for pitching. But, remember, Texas subsidized the trade by agreeing to pay for part of ARod's contract. Same with the Brown trade. The dodgers picked up part of his contract. And, Brown is just as old as Schilling with just as impressive record in the postseason untill this year.

    I wasn't arguing about this year's pitching staff- Boston was better.

    I think people don't give Matsui enough credit. He almost never makes the wrong play. One of the most fundamentally sound players I've seen. And, this year, he started to hit for power. Manny is a defensive liability; it almost negates his offensive prowess. Isn't that why Boston tried to trade him?

    What if that trade had gone through? Would Boston still be on the verge of clinching its first championship since 1918?
     
  10. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    If I were the Red Sox, I wouldn't have minded having A-Rod because the trades would have been Manny for A-Rod and Ordonez for Garciaparra, which would have worked out much better for the Sox than it did for the Yankees. Soriano put up better numbers for the Yanks than A-Rod when he was playing in NY, and I would personally rather have Soriano than A-Rod. How many good 2nd basemen are there with his offensive and defensive skills? (Hint, none)

    I'm doing a head to head positional analysis, both teams are obviously good enough to make the playoffs, what really matters is how they do against each other.

    Manny is not a great defensive player, but he's better than Bonds and was good enough to throw out Walker at the plate last night.

    I would rather have Ordonez and A-Rod then Garciaparra and Ramirez though.
     
  11. NavyStyles

    NavyStyles Senior member

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    You are indeed correct, sir. The famous Called Shot was in Game 3 at Wrigley Field. I wasn't very clear in my wording -- or understanding of the article. I think the author meant that the shots were in the same direction as the called shot... Then again, he could've just meant that Ruth slammed plenty of his own (less mythical) homers in the same section as the Sox sluggers. Thanks for setting the record straight.
     
  12. NavyStyles

    NavyStyles Senior member

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    It feels so surreal.

    Boston Red Sox -- World Champions

    86 years since 1918
    18 years since 1986
     
  13. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    WHAT CURSE?[​IMG] The Sox are MLB's DADDY.
     
  14. matadorpoeta

    matadorpoeta Senior member

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    i actually saw every game of the series, and all but one of the red sox/yankees series.

    i pay very little attention to baseball and never watch it unless the dodgers are playing, but the red sox caught my attention this year. i don't know why.

    they were a team of destiny.
     
  15. esquire.

    esquire. Senior member

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    Its good to know that there's another dodger fan here. I was torn whether or not I should root for the giants to make the playoffs this year, since it would allow the dodgers to have played the braves instead of the cardinals. That would have been a better matchup. I'm worried that this year is as good as it gets for awhile. It seems the Parking Lot Attendant/owner plans on slashing payroll next year.

    For some reason, it just feels anticlimatic that the red sox finally won it. What happens to the red sox mystique. So much of it was centered around this curse. Do the red sox become just another baseball team, like the Tigers or Padres.

    It'll be interesting to see if this whole curse thing now falls on the White Sox.They haven't won since 1917, and they actually have a legitimate reason to be cursed, unlike that stupid billy goat tale with the Cubs. They threw the World Series in 1919, and you could call it curse of shoeless joe jackson for being unfairly banned from baseball.
     
  16. PeterMetro

    PeterMetro Senior member

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    I just can't believe it. I never thought I'd live to see the day. I'm emotional.
     
  17. Ambulance Chaser

    Ambulance Chaser Senior member

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    This photograph says it all. If I was a Red Sox fan, it would make me cry . . .
     
  18. christian

    christian Senior member

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    I can't believe a Red Sox fan would bitch about this this year. Have you even been following them this year?

    Possible trades and aquistions for the RedSox which didn't happen where the Yankees trumped the Rdsox this year:

    1) Arod deal fell through for Boston, so Redsox kept Manny Ramirez who is the MVP of world series. NY had to trade Sorriano to get ARod.

    2) Expos told RSox that they didn't have enough to get Vasquez, so RSox turned to plan B (Schilling).

    3) BSox almost traded Lowe for Loiaza before the Yankees again trumped BSox, and got the player Boston wanted

    3) Yankees beat RSox in signing COntreras
     
  19. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

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    I would have been happier with Ordonez and A-Rod than with Cabrera and Ramirez, but that's just me.

    I don't think this was a situation where they wouldn't have signed Schilling if they'd been able to trade for Vasquez... Also, I think the Sox weren't that interested in Vasquez.

    The trade that was most likely to happen was trading Lowe for Milton or Milwood, which may or may not have been a good trade, but Lowe wasn't any good until the ALCS/WS, he sucked bad until then.

    Contreras is a good pitcher, if you look at his record, almost all of his losses were to to the Red Sox.
     
  20. christian

    christian Senior member

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    I don't think Boston could have afforded to sign both Schilling and Vasquez. Remember, their payroll this year is already 130 million. Also, Vasquez is much younger than Schilling. Long term, it would have been better to get Vasquez than Schilling.

    I think this year's team will be like the Angels or the Marlins when they won their world series. Everything went their way this year, and they really can't expect the same breaks next year to happen. They've got a lot of free agents, and might not even make the playoffs next year.
     

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