Austro-Hungarian school of shoemaking

[Sonny58]



......It also described one such 'journeyman' who went to England not to return. His name was Tuczek and apprenticed George Cleverly.

Originally Posted by The Rake
Nikolaus Tuczek, often considered the most skilled shoemaker in the 20th century, was the son of an Austro-Hungarian also named Nikolaus Tuzcek who had come to London around 1850 and never returned to Hungary. Tuczek apprenticed George Cleverly, who some say was his master's only rival.

I agree, no controversy!
See how the second quote from the Rake, tallies with the information here, while the first one missed some 70 years, between Tuczek (senior) arriving and George Cleverley starting with the son's firm in 1919. (Fair to presume Tuczek (senior) was dead by 1919.)
Here is a time table for the history of the firm:
http://www.classicshoesformen.com/s...gue-slipper-master-nikolaus-tuczek-circa-1950
Who was the author who wrote the piece for the Rake, did he really have the two (each other contradicting) statements in the same article?
In this case, it is either sloppy research or sloppy editing.

Sheesh... Mr. BS, you have manipulated my posts and I am not pleased. I tried to be very clear about what was written by The Rake. It was contained in quotes. My words and paraphrases were represented clearly with a difference yet your previous post attributes my words to The Rake. Shame on you.

 

[emptym]

^It seems to me that Bengal just made a mistake. Earlier, he quoted you as stating what you stated, namely:

It also described one such 'journeyman' who went to England not to return. His name was Tuczek and apprenticed George Cleverly.

Later, he makes the mistake of attributing this statement to the Rake.

But what stands imo, is that there is some controversy, at least in the past page or two of this thread. The controversy is whether or not someone trained in the Austro-Hungarian school taught George Cleverly. Sonny58's statement above seems to assert that Nikolaus Tuczek was trained in this manner in Eastern Europe, then went to England and there trained George Cleverly. The Rake seems to contradict this (in in a quote posted by Sonny58, see below). It says that it was the son of this Nikolaus Tuczek, also named Nikolaus Tuczek, who was born and raised in England and then trained George Cleverly.

Given the dates, it seems clear that the Rake is correct and that it was not the immigrant Mr. T who trained Cleverly but the son. But it still seems reasonable to say that the Austro-Hungarian school had some influence on Cleverly -- not directly through a person trained in Eastern Europe, but indirectly through such a person's son. It would only be unreasonable if the son was not trained by his father. But I don't know if there's any evidence of this.

Does this sound reasonable, Fritzl, Sonny, and Bengal?

I had no idea there was a controversy around this matter. But, to hopefully add some clarity to The Rake's account:

...
Nikolaus Tuczek, often considered the most skilled shoemaker in the 20th century, was the son of an Austro-Hungarian also named Nikolaus Tuzcek who had come to London around 1850 and never returned to Hungary. Tuczek apprenticed George Cleverly, who some say was his master's only rival.

 

[fritzl]



Does this sound reasonable, Fritzl, Sonny, and Bengal?

m., it sounds very reasonable. i appreciate your kind words.

in this thread is a pic from the old cleverley website.

i hope, we all can go ahead now. will probably post some more pictures...

 

[bengal-stripe]



Sheesh... Mr. BS, you have manipulated my posts and I am not pleased. I tried to be very clear about what was written by The Rake. It was contained in quotes. My words and paraphrases were represented clearly with a difference yet your previous post attributes my words to The Rake. Shame on you.

Maybe I put the quotes wrong. Here is your original quote

It also described one such 'journeyman' who went to England not to return. His name was Tuczek and apprenticed George Cleverly.

“It also described” which I presumed, was a verbatim quote from the Rake, maybe it was your summarizing. But did the Rake say the Tuczek who trained Cleverley was the same Tuczek 'who went to England not to return' - was it you and not the Rake who muddled-up father and son?

Here is the family tree of the Tuczek family:

http://bean95.hostzi.com/bean/pafg179.htm

Nikolaus (senior), born about 1823 in Hungary, died 1893 in London (Hammersmith).

Nikolaus Christopher (junior) born about 1865 in London (Shepherd's Bush) died ?.

Although the senior was born in Hungary, the family name is not Magyar but sounds Czech and his language might have been German: one son was called Wenzel, which is the German version of the Czech Václav – the national Saint (Good King) Wenceslas.

All I was saying, there is no direct link between a migrant from the Habsburg lands to George Cleverley.

 

[Sonny58]

Yes, perhaps I did muddle up the two Tuczeks in my original post. To be honest, I was a little confused by The Rake's description of father and son. Subsequently I put the exact text from The Rake in an attempt to clarify their statements on the matter. In both of my posts I tried to be very careful about what were my words and what were theirs and so I became frustrated when you blamed them for my words. I learned a lesson here, I will not be posting someone else's content in the future. Sorry for the misunderstanding and for derailing the thread.

 

[bengal-stripe]

"Much ado about nothing"

 

[fritzl]



Sorry for the misunderstanding and for derailing the thread.

you didn't.

 

[fritzl]



All I was saying, there is no direct link between a migrant from the Habsburg lands to George Cleverley.

oh well. can we interrupt the history lesson for a while and get back to topic. thank you.

 

[fritzl]

another write up about mr. tuczek. very impressive.

Nikolaus Tuczek
Established 1853
#17 Clifford Street, W1
The late, lamented firm of Tuczek of #17 Clifford Street, W1, bespoke society shoemaker, is a legend in the trade among historians and collectors. The importance of this master is only confirmed by the fact that George Cleverly, considered by some to be the finest shoemaker of the late 20th century, began his career with Nikolaus Tuczek in 1920 and remained with the firm 38 years before opening his own workshop. Tuczek’s designs are exceptionally sleek and most often feature his characteristic chiselled toe and elastic side gussets. It can be conjectured that this was Tuczek’s legacy as there is little to compare with the dramatic lasting, the intricate detailing, and the painstaking construction of the Tuczek shoe. But finally it is the overall effect of the design, the harmony of decoration and sculptural form that distinguishes this shoemaker. There is very little to be found from the last half century that possesses the stylistic boldness or charm.
The history of the firm is well documented elsewhere but these dates of operation with addresses will be useful in dating shoes.
24 Arthur Street, Oxford Street 1853-1855
24 High Street, St Giles's 1856-1861
109 New Bond Street 1862-1886
39 Old Bond Street 1887-1903
15B Clifford Street 1904-1937
17 Clifford Street 1938-1966
21 Jermyn Street 1966-1969
The company was taken over by John Lobb around 1970. In a phone call Mr. John Hunter Lobb recalled to me that “We took over the remnant of Tuczek in 1968." Lobb has an unbrogued model called Elastic Sided with Plain Tuczek Style Elastic - (SS597) which, no doubt, they consider derivative of the great master’s style.
G. Bruce Boyer the author of Eminently Suitable (1990), quotes John Hlustik, who bought the Edward Green firm in 1982-3; "Just the other week a gentleman came into the shop for some new shoes. He was wearing a pair made by Tuczek in the early 1940s. They were so marvellous, I asked him if he would sell them to me...offered him $3,500. He refused, and I can't say I blame him. After 50 years, they had an absolutely vintage classicism about them." Remember this was $3500 in the 1980’s!
What is needed is a scholarly study on the modern history of shoemaking, that is to say, 19th and 20th century shoemaking, the great houses, American as well as English and Continental, the many lamented masters never mentioned (understandably) in such as the Laszlo Vass book on contemporary shoemaking, Herrenschuhe Handgearbeitet. The 20th Century began with a myriad of shoemaking workshops, both factories and cottage industry that produced some breathtakingly beautiful tours-de-force of shoemaking. These masterpieces and the artists who made them, like Tuczek and his work, should be studied, the few remaining shoes photographed and memorialised. Where is the passionate, young and scholarly aficionado do this?

 

[DWFII]



another write up about mr. tuczek. very impressive.

Isn't that precisely the text of the site that Bengal-Stripe linked to?

 

[comrade]



^It seems to me that Bengal just made a mistake. Earlier, he quoted you as stating what you stated, namely:
Later, he makes the mistake of attributing this statement to the Rake.
But what stands imo, is that there is some controversy, at least in the past page or two of this thread. The controversy is whether or not someone trained in the Austro-Hungarian school taught George Cleverly. Sonny58's statement above seems to assert that Nikolaus Tuczek was trained in this manner in Eastern Europe, then went to England and there trained George Cleverly. The Rake seems to contradict this (in in a quote posted by Sonny58, see below). It says that it was the son of this Nikolaus Tuczek, also named Nikolaus Tuczek, who was born and raised in England and then trained George Cleverly.
Given the dates, it seems clear that the Rake is correct and that it was not the immigrant Mr. T who trained Cleverly but the son. But it still seems reasonable to say that the Austro-Hungarian school had some influence on Cleverly -- not directly through a person trained in Eastern Europe, but indirectly through such a person's son. It would only be unreasonable if the son was not trained by his father. But I don't know if there's any evidence of this.
Does this sound reasonable, Fritzl, Sonny, and Bengal?

Formidable!! ( French pronuciation, si'l vous plait.)
Professor, you have successfully performed an admirable "explication de texte"

 

[fritzl]

another write up about mr. tuczek. very impressive.

Isn't that precisely the text of the site that Bengal-Stripe linked to?

i don't know. i only read his complaints, when they are quoted. i asked the moderation to take care of his activities. fair enough, imo.

 

[fritzl]



Formidable!! ( French pronuciation, si'l vou plait.)
Professor, you have successfully performed an admirable "explication de texte"

exactly, he thankfully did. great job.

 

[fritzl]

new restoration project:

 

[fritzl]

cross post from the shoe pron thread. imo, they deserve it:

Hope that works?!

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg337/scaled.php?server=337&filename=schuhe1r.jpg&res=landing

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg825/scaled.php?server=825&filename=schuhe2ir.jpg&res=landing