Austro-Hungarian school of shoemaking

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by fritzl, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. Sonny58

    Sonny58 Senior member

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    Sheesh... Mr. BS, you have manipulated my posts and I am not pleased. I tried to be very clear about what was written by The Rake. It was contained in quotes. My words and paraphrases were represented clearly with a difference yet your previous post attributes my words to The Rake. Shame on you. :facepalm:
     
  2. emptym

    emptym Moderator Moderator

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    ^It seems to me that Bengal just made a mistake. Earlier, he quoted you as stating what you stated, namely:
    Later, he makes the mistake of attributing this statement to the Rake.

    But what stands imo, is that there is some controversy, at least in the past page or two of this thread. The controversy is whether or not someone trained in the Austro-Hungarian school taught George Cleverly. Sonny58's statement above seems to assert that Nikolaus Tuczek was trained in this manner in Eastern Europe, then went to England and there trained George Cleverly. The Rake seems to contradict this (in in a quote posted by Sonny58, see below). It says that it was the son of this Nikolaus Tuczek, also named Nikolaus Tuczek, who was born and raised in England and then trained George Cleverly.

    Given the dates, it seems clear that the Rake is correct and that it was not the immigrant Mr. T who trained Cleverly but the son. But it still seems reasonable to say that the Austro-Hungarian school had some influence on Cleverly -- not directly through a person trained in Eastern Europe, but indirectly through such a person's son. It would only be unreasonable if the son was not trained by his father. But I don't know if there's any evidence of this.

    Does this sound reasonable, Fritzl, Sonny, and Bengal?

     
  3. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    m., it sounds very reasonable. i appreciate your kind words.

    in this thread is a pic from the old cleverley website.

    i hope, we all can go ahead now. will probably post some more pictures... :cheers:
     
  4. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Maybe I put the quotes wrong. Here is your original quote


    “It also described” which I presumed, was a verbatim quote from the Rake, maybe it was your summarizing. But did the Rake say the Tuczek who trained Cleverley was the same Tuczek 'who went to England not to return' - was it you and not the Rake who muddled-up father and son?

    Here is the family tree of the Tuczek family:

    http://bean95.hostzi.com/bean/pafg179.htm

    Nikolaus (senior), born about 1823 in Hungary, died 1893 in London (Hammersmith).

    Nikolaus Christopher (junior) born about 1865 in London (Shepherd's Bush) died ?.

    Although the senior was born in Hungary, the family name is not Magyar but sounds Czech and his language might have been German: one son was called Wenzel, which is the German version of the Czech Václav – the national Saint (Good King) Wenceslas.

    All I was saying, there is no direct link between a migrant from the Habsburg lands to George Cleverley.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  5. Sonny58

    Sonny58 Senior member

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    Yes, perhaps I did muddle up the two Tuczeks in my original post. To be honest, I was a little confused by The Rake's description of father and son. Subsequently I put the exact text from The Rake in an attempt to clarify their statements on the matter. In both of my posts I tried to be very careful about what were my words and what were theirs and so I became frustrated when you blamed them for my words. I learned a lesson here, I will not be posting someone else's content in the future. Sorry for the misunderstanding and for derailing the thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  6. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    "Much ado about nothing"
     
  7. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    you didn't.
     
  8. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    oh well. can we interrupt the history lesson for a while and get back to topic. thank you.
     
  9. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    another write up about mr. tuczek. very impressive.

    Nikolaus Tuczek
    Established 1853
    #17 Clifford Street, W1
    The late, lamented firm of Tuczek of #17 Clifford Street, W1, bespoke society shoemaker, is a legend in the trade among historians and collectors. The importance of this master is only confirmed by the fact that George Cleverly, considered by some to be the finest shoemaker of the late 20th century, began his career with Nikolaus Tuczek in 1920 and remained with the firm 38 years before opening his own workshop. Tuczek’s designs are exceptionally sleek and most often feature his characteristic chiselled toe and elastic side gussets. It can be conjectured that this was Tuczek’s legacy as there is little to compare with the dramatic lasting, the intricate detailing, and the painstaking construction of the Tuczek shoe. But finally it is the overall effect of the design, the harmony of decoration and sculptural form that distinguishes this shoemaker. There is very little to be found from the last half century that possesses the stylistic boldness or charm.
    The history of the firm is well documented elsewhere but these dates of operation with addresses will be useful in dating shoes.
    24 Arthur Street, Oxford Street 1853-1855
    24 High Street, St Giles's 1856-1861
    109 New Bond Street 1862-1886
    39 Old Bond Street 1887-1903
    15B Clifford Street 1904-1937
    17 Clifford Street 1938-1966
    21 Jermyn Street 1966-1969
    The company was taken over by John Lobb around 1970. In a phone call Mr. John Hunter Lobb recalled to me that “We took over the remnant of Tuczek in 1968." Lobb has an unbrogued model called Elastic Sided with Plain Tuczek Style Elastic - (SS597) which, no doubt, they consider derivative of the great master’s style.
    G. Bruce Boyer the author of Eminently Suitable (1990), quotes John Hlustik, who bought the Edward Green firm in 1982-3; "Just the other week a gentleman came into the shop for some new shoes. He was wearing a pair made by Tuczek in the early 1940s. They were so marvellous, I asked him if he would sell them to me...offered him $3,500. He refused, and I can't say I blame him. After 50 years, they had an absolutely vintage classicism about them." Remember this was $3500 in the 1980’s!
    What is needed is a scholarly study on the modern history of shoemaking, that is to say, 19th and 20th century shoemaking, the great houses, American as well as English and Continental, the many lamented masters never mentioned (understandably) in such as the Laszlo Vass book on contemporary shoemaking, Herrenschuhe Handgearbeitet. The 20th Century began with a myriad of shoemaking workshops, both factories and cottage industry that produced some breathtakingly beautiful tours-de-force of shoemaking. These masterpieces and the artists who made them, like Tuczek and his work, should be studied, the few remaining shoes photographed and memorialised. Where is the passionate, young and scholarly aficionado do this?
     
  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Isn't that precisely the text of the site that Bengal-Stripe linked to?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2011
  11. comrade

    comrade Senior member

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    Formidable!! ( French pronuciation, si'l vous plait.)
    Professor, you have successfully performed an admirable "explication de texte"
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  12. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    i don't know. i only read his complaints, when they are quoted. i asked the moderation to take care of his activities. fair enough, imo.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2011
  13. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    exactly, he thankfully did. great job.
     
  14. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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    new restoration project:

    [​IMG]
     
  15. fritzl

    fritzl Senior member

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