Tell Me About Law School

[JBZ]

True story:

First exam of my first year was contracts. Two questions. The first looked like a fairly typical question with parties A and B engaging in some sort of contractual transaction. However, the professor inadvertently reversed the identities of the two parties midway through the question, resulting in gibberish. Hilarity ensued as the professor had to be called in to fix the question, we were given an additional two hours to complete the exam, 2 students spontaneously combusted and, ultimately, we were given the option of taking a pass/fail grade for the course. People were still bitter about it a year later.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by JBZ

True story:

First exam of my first year was contracts. Two questions. The first looked like a fairly typical question with parties A and B engaging in some sort of contractual transaction. However, the professor inadvertently reversed the identities of the two parties midway through the question, resulting in gibberish. Hilarity ensued as the professor had to be called in to fix the question, we were given an additional two hours to complete the exam, 2 students spontaneously combusted and, ultimately, we were given the option of taking a pass/fail grade for the course. People were still bitter about it a year later.

Can't you complain to the department chair, and ultimately the dean regarding such a fiasco?

Jon.

 

[crazyquik]

Similar happened in one of my exams. Fact pattern about a guy named like Bertrand, then in the question it referred to Bernard (or similar, or vice versa). Some people caught this and wrote "blah blah blah does not apply because Bernard was not even mentioned in the fact pattern." Not sure if it got elevated to the Dean or not. I was kinda put off by the amount of minor errors in the exams

 

[JBZ]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Can't you complain to the department chair, and ultimately the dean regarding such a fiasco?

Jon.

Absolutely, and this was done. I have never seen a group of people so up in arms about something like this. People were calling for a formal apology from the professor almost a year later. Ultimately, the pass/fail option was given, which was how the school decided to handle it. People were terrified that this was somehow going to horribly impact their career status and record. I guess this was somewhat justified, but I really thought the students went overboard. The prof did come in to fix the test, and extra time was granted to finish. I looked at it as s*** happens.

For the record, I got a B+ and elected to keep the grade.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by JBZ

Absolutely, and this was done. I have never seen a group of people so up in arms about something like this. People were calling for a formal apology from the professor almost a year later. Ultimately, the pass/fail option was given, which was how the school decided to handle it. People were terrified that this was somehow going to horribly impact their career status and record. I guess this was somewhat justified, but I really thought the students went overboard. The prof did come in to fix the test, and extra time was granted to finish. I looked at it as s*** happens.

For the record, I got a B+ and elected to keep the grade.

LOL, come on now! You can't believe that a bunch of budding hair splitters, technicality hounds and ambulance chasers wanted to make a federal case out of this? Context and location! Oh so important in this scenario

 

[Joel_Cairo]

Originally Posted by JBZ

Absolutely, and this was done. I have never seen a group of people so up in arms about something like this. People were calling for a formal apology from the professor almost a year later. Ultimately, the pass/fail option was given, which was how the school decided to handle it. People were terrified that this was somehow going to horribly impact their career status and record. I guess this was somewhat justified, but I really thought the students went overboard. The prof did come in to fix the test, and extra time was granted to finish. I looked at it as s*** happens.

For the record, I got a B+ and elected to keep the grade.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

LOL, come on now! You can't believe that a bunch of budding hair splitters, technicality hounds and ambulance chasers wanted to make a federal case out of this? Context and location! Oh so important in this scenario

Maybe the "typo" was secretly some kind of a test to see just how litigious these wanna be lawyers really are?

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by JBZ

Absolutely, and this was done. I have never seen a group of people so up in arms about something like this.

I can't imagine a population that as a whole is more likely to react badly to this sort of things than a group of law students.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Similar happened in one of my exams. Fact pattern about a guy named like Bertrand, then in the question it referred to Bernard (or similar, or vice versa). Some people caught this and wrote "blah blah blah does not apply because Bernard was not even mentioned in the fact pattern." Not sure if it got elevated to the Dean or not. I was kinda put off by the amount of minor errors in the exams

I'm sure by catching the mistake, students were missing a large part of the analysis the professor was expecting. Did those students still receive high marks? If I took the exam I would have responded that whatever does not apply to "Bernard", but if you meant Bertrand, then ... blah blah blah analysis. It would show a lack of ability if the students refused to answer the question knowing the professor simply made an error, and, in my opinion, should result in lower marks for not knowing how to handle the situation.

 

[eg1]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Is it me or does that sound like an insanely monotonous job?

Jon.

I dunno, seems it (patent office) worked out OK for a certain Albert of whom you may have heard ...

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

Ouch... that looks brutal. I'm a cultural anthropology major, so most of my stuff is pretty entertaining, although some of it gets to be a bit humdrum. I'm currently reading a book for my class next semester entitled 'Plagues of Peoples" and it goes through most of the major cultures in the modern world and discusses the history of diseases, etc etc. Prettty sweet stuff.

Do you mean William H. McNeill's Plagues and Peoples? His stuff is generally dynamite.

Originally Posted by crazyquik

Everyone I know pretty much agrees with all of these. If you go to law school, you will too

You know all sorts of sneaky and creative ways to steal from clients thanks to your Professionalism and Ethics class.

You consider dropping out of law school approximately every hour, but after that first semester you realized you were already in too much debt to be anything other than a lawyer.

You aspire to one day own Blackacre.

Substance abuse becomes you.

The drama in your life now rivals that of high school.

You make adverse possession jokes.

You can name without hesitation at least three people who make you want to throw things when you see them raise their hands in class.

You think IRAC and CREAC are just code for saying the same thing over and over.

You are truly and deeply unnerved by the thought of some of your classmates becoming attorneys.

You think tequila shots are essential to ordered liberty.

You wonder if that one professor who always seems angry and irritable and treats students' minds as his personal playground is actually a sociopath or just didn't get enough hugs as a child.

Sometimes during disagreements you are tempted to 12(b)(6) the offending friend or family member.

You know and understand the complicated epistemological and metaphysical differences between a conspirator and an accomplice.

You know and understand the complicated epistemological and metaphysical differences between coffee and red bull.

You can't remember if you decided to come to law school because you wanted to help people and make a difference in the world or because you hate yourself.

You think whoever first introduced the Socratic method into the law school curriculum should have his face lit on fire and then beaten out with a rake.

You can't think of any legitimate reason why a law student would need access to certain public records, but you can think of a whole lot of illegitimate ones.

After the first semester you realized that "briefing a case" need only consist of looking it up on Lexis or Westlaw.

You've given yourself carpal tunnel from all the spider solitaire you play in class.

When someone is expressing their frustration or anger about something that is in any way related to the law, you can't be sympathetic because you're too busy figuring out in your head if they have a cause of action.

You hear about the death of an elderly friend or relative and wonder if they died intestate.

You have considered changing career paths to hot dog vendor, stilt walker, or career alcoholic.

You're pretty sure the reasonable prudent man is a friendless tool who still lives with his mother.

crazyquik, with chops like that you are wasting your talent -- you should be churning out the law-school equivalent of Liars Poker or some such other Michael Lewis book.

Huntsman, as regards your OP, have you considered finance? That's the route my richest Engineering friends took.

 

[KBW]

I advise totally against law school. The bar in my state is total hell and two of my very good friends who are very smart and did extremely well in law school and on all other examinations did not pass the bar (3 day exam here) and are now pursuing careers in finance with 6 figure loans to pay off from school. There's also way too many pursuing careers in law right now and unless you have a firm to walk into I wouldn't go into law school.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by KBW

I advise totally against law school. The bar in my state is total hell and two of my very good friends who are very smart and did extremely well in law school and on all other examinations did not pass the bar (3 day exam here) and are now pursuing careers in finance with 6 figure loans to pay off from school. There's also way too many pursuing careers in law right now and unless you have a firm to walk into I wouldn't go into law school.

I'm sorry for your friends' experience, but it's hardly typical. I think the bar passage rate here in CA (three days and regarded as one of the most difficult) for graduates of "top tier" law schools, I believe, somewhere around 90%. Most of my classmates took the prep class from Barpassers or somebody like that immediately after graduation, in preparation for the July bar. IIRC, the passage rate for people taking those courses was also somewhere around 90%. Anybody can have a bad day, but for people who did well at "good" law schools and do the requisite prep work for the bar exam, the odds of passing are quite high. Offhand I can think of only one person I know who didn't pass the first time around, and he then got his act together and passed the second time. It's more grueling than difficult, and anyone who graduated from law school and is willing to put in a bit of study time should be able to pass.

With very limited exceptions, nobody starts law school with "a firm to walk into". That's just not how the profession works, so I'd have to say that advice is pretty useless and ill-informed.

 

[lawyerdad]

Sorry for the typo. The second sentence ^ should read: I think the bar passage rate here in CA (three days and regarded as one of the most difficult) for graduates of "top tier" law schools is (or was when I took the Bar) somewhere around 90%.

The system won't let me edit it (that is, when I try to save my edit it just hangs up).

 

[DNW]

Originally Posted by kwilkinson

Come on guys. You can't be that cynical about it. I really hope that as someone who will graduate undergrad and start applying for law school in 2-3 years, that you aren't hating your lives in law school that much. There must be at least some reason you stay. Aren't the ideals you went there for in the first place present at all?

My ideals are still intact, but now they're tempered by a six figure loan amount.

For the record, I don't hate law school. For the most part, I also like my law professors. However, it's amazing to see how fast people lose their humanity here. A semi-normal, semi-sociable, semi-friendly entering student will turn into a complete self-absorbed, self-righteous, asshole by the end of the second year. I have friends who are graduate students of the other departments, and I can clearly see the difference. Not that they study any less, but they somehow manage to have a life and can hold a normal conversation about something else other than their work. In other words, they're normal.

Some law students still manage to have a normal life, but they're the exceptions, not the norms. The one common thread that I've been able to discern from this group is that they stay away from the school as much as they can. As for myself, I go to class, then straight home or to my gf's house (she's also a law student). I hang out with about a handful of law students, the rest of my group of friends are graduate students at the other schools. I can feel my blood pressure rising every time I enter the school. The most immediate impetus is usually from seeing the dark and grim faces of the other law students.

 

[FLMountainMan]

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

Sorry for the typo. The second sentence ^ should read: I think the bar passage rate here in CA (three days and regarded as one of the most difficult) for graduates of "top tier" law schools is (or was when I took the Bar) somewhere around 90%.

The system won't let me edit it (that is, when I try to save my edit it just hangs up).

Isn't the difficulty of the California Bar skewed by the fact that people without law degrees can sit for the exam? Wouldn't that drive up the overall failure rate and make it look tougher?

 

[Renault78law]

Originally Posted by FLMountainMan

Isn't the difficulty of the California Bar skewed by the fact that people without law degrees can sit for the exam? Wouldn't that drive up the overall failure rate and make it look tougher?

No, you're referring to an extremely limited exception. I don't believe it is statistically relevant. The California Bar passage rate, however, is skewed by repeat takers, which is presumably why LD referred to graduates from top tiered schools.