HOF: What Are You Wearing Right Now - Part III

[jj-moody]

I specifically said it was meant in the Aristotelean sense, which is not that hard to understand. I recommend this translation, it just came out and it is far and away the best one:

http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo11393496.html

Yes, yes...in the Aristotelean sense it is not banal at all. That certainly changes everything...now it definitely sds less like a cliche and more like a cliche from someone learned

 

[Manton]



Yes, yes...in the Aristotelean sense it is not banal at all. That certainly changes everything...now it definitely sds less like a cliche and more like a cliche from someone learned

Such a pleasant person you are. Look, I was making a point, it's not a mean in the sense of center between two extremes or opposites, it's mean in these of the most desirable point between those opposites, which point happens to be not the dead center but closer to one of the alternatives than the other. The extremes of courage are cowardice and rashness. Courage is closer to rashness but it is not rashness. Get it?

 

[teddieriley]



What I see in the spoo pic vox quoted is too many straight lines and angles. What I see in the other coat that I criticized earlier is too much round. What I like about well done A&S or Naples or NY bespoke is that they get the mean right, each in their own different way, but done well.

Believe it or not, conceptually I understand what you are saying. There needs to be a certain fluidity in the garment that should account for one's body in a tailored garment vs. an RTW one (that even has the basic tailoring). I guess now I just need to get better at identifying it.

While I know there is a lot of criticism against Foo where 1/2 the camp still feels his R stuff does nothing for him, I do recognize a certain shape to his garments that are specific to him and his body. Many times, that's all you can ask for. Can't turn the dude into Brad Pitt or Vox.

 

[swiego]



4. This will be unpopular, but here goes: Manton's look requires more knowledge (certainly), more sophisticated taste (maybe, but that's what I think), but in the end, it requires more money. Cashola. [Shout it out, brutha Reevolving!] It requires that because tailors who produce that look are not cheap and do not sell stuff through Gilt Groupe. There are not many of these tailors. Their numbers and availability decline as each day passes. The products that they produce occupy narrowing niches in everyday life. Three of them might comment in that new SF-MC fit thread, but there is one overall meaning to their commentary: your tailor sucks.

This has been a fascinating conversation for a relative lurker still trying to establish his stylistic sensibilities.

The point quoted above does make me curious, however. Is his look the result of his knowledge and taste, or that of his tailor(s)?

See, as one of those "newbies" I rather like Spoo's looks, because rather than giving me insight into what a top tier bespoke tailor can do for me, which is not relevant to me at this stage in my life, they better educate me about how to make more of what I already have. Admitting that I see some of the fit issues described, what I look for in Spoo's pictures are great ensemble arrangements: beautifully coordinated items that (to me) convey a great deal of emotion. Is that not a sign of a person with great knowledge and taste?

 

[Manton]

ed's jacket above is RTW but it looks very good to me on precisely the terms I am advocating here. So it's not, in the final analysis, a RTW v. bespoke thing. Though certainly there are some bodies that RTW cannot well serve and foo's would be one of them. So would mine but I think I can get away with RTW easier than he can.

 

[DocHolliday]

That said, as you might guess, I disagree with your thesis.

Really? That's unwise, since I am right.

Which SF RTW-wearers do you like as much or more than your favorites (if any) who use bespoke tailors?

We know you do it well. But, let's exclude you since I am questioning you.

If you genuinely believe I do it well -- and feel free to say if you don't -- I don't see the need to put on further evidence. I'm the cheapest man alive.

While a lot of the RTW we see here is poorly chosen or put together unfortunately, a good bit of the bespoke stuff posted online strikes me as dull or dowdy or just plain bad. Some folks substitute prestige for good taste, and that's true of both RTW and bespoke.

The people I think are really well dressed would be well dressed in either bespoke or RTW. The right tailor helps, no doubt, and pushes the boundaries of what can be achieved. But that, IMO, in no way explains the problems you're describing here. If it were that simple, it would be a lot more understandable, and much more excusable.

 

[in stitches]



The Spoopoker/Manton comparison photograph that I posted earlier can be used for a lot of things.

Some examples:

1. Both guys often, or even usually, take terrible photographs of themselves, typically from an above-midpoint, close-in angle. Their typical shot often keystones the photo. These two shots are some of the most objective since they are among the few that are relatively straight on. Both are slim, healthy, low BMI guys. In fact, Manton is taller and heavier in about the same approximate proportion as Spoo, based on what each has told me about their height and weight. Neither is athletic. WAYWRN's most prolific Russian, who is strong like bear, is. He would bend both like beet-infused pretzel and then have his tailor pick stitch them around their edges. Their postures are different, and that is very important, but Spoo and Manton are basically skinny dudes. Most of you are chubby, they are not. They are good clothes hangers.

2. When you look at the photos, what is the reaction? Not specifically, but overall? It seems to me that if you cannot tell Manton is by far better dressed...as Spoo, good guy that he is, instantly recognized...then you will never, ever get it...or you're an Underwear Typist.

3. Why is Manton the better dressed? First of all, he should be. He is knowledgable, mature in his aesthetics, deeply familiar with the form and meaning of tailored clothes, grew up among males in coat and tie, and has more money and leisure time for clothes than Spoo, who works night and day like a dog when he's not amassing iammatt-like post counts on SF. Spoo is younger, Manton is older. Will Spoo catch up or will it be Zeno all over again? Who can say? But, please don't tell me they are the same unless your intent is to invalidate everything else that you write...or you are attempting an amusing game. But then, be amusing.

4. This will be unpopular, but here goes: Manton's look requires more knowledge (certainly), more sophisticated taste (maybe, but that's what I think), but in the end, it requires more money. Cashola. [Shout it out, brutha Reevolving!] It requires that because tailors who produce that look are not cheap and do not sell stuff through Gilt Groupe. There are not many of these tailors. Their numbers and availability decline as each day passes. The products that they produce occupy narrowing niches in everyday life. Three of them might comment in that new SF-MC fit thread, but there is one overall meaning to their commentary: your tailor sucks.

Court dress, day dress, evening dress, lounge clothes, all circle the drain, spiral, spiral, until the sink is but dry. What is left is coat and tie as amusement wear. One year it's the ripped stonewashed jean. Another?

Ovadia and Sons.

What do the rest of you see in the photos? Tell the truth.

here is the sole problem with this post. aside from the point about money, you said the same thing i did a few pages ago. but since i am nobody i get no props. thanks mang. really thanks a lot.

 

[F. Corbera]

.

 

[Manton]



Darling, you needn't clarify the sentiment you were suggesting is hackneyed. Now perhaps if you could have employed machiavelli as a sort of literary device, it would have been stunning.

OK, great, Aristotle is "hackneyed." Which sock are you again? Anyway, done.

 

[F. Corbera]

.

 

[itsstillmatt]

My pencil is long and yellow.

 

[jj-moody]

OK, great, Aristotle is "hackneyed."

Which sock are you again?

Anyway, done.

The sentiment cobra...the sentiment. God bless.

 

[jj-moody]

If you genuinely believe I do it well -- and feel free to say if you don't -- I don't see the need to put on further evidence. I'm the cheapest man alive.

While a lot of the RTW we see here is poorly chosen or put together unfortunately, a good bit of the bespoke stuff posted online strikes me as dull or dowdy or just plain bad. Some folks substitute prestige for good taste, and that's true of both RTW and bespoke.

The people I think are really well dressed would be well dressed in either bespoke or RTW. The right tailor helps, no doubt, and pushes the boundaries of what can be achieved. But that, IMO, in no way explains the problems you're describing here. If it were that simple, it would be a lot more understandable, and much more excusable.

It is much much easier to be better dressed bespoke than RTW, especially, but not mainly, if you have a peculiar body type. I think RTW takes a lot more time and thought, and searching. You can just tell the tailor what you want and it is done. Try finding alligator skin elbow patches in a store! I've seen gator skins patches on this site I think, although I am not sure. Decadent!

 

[in stitches]



My pencil is long and yellow.

huh?

also if what i think is happening is happening

 

[cronicmole]

I think everyone should remember just because you buy the most expensive articles of clothing and everything SF suggests.. doesn't mean you will automatically be a good dresser. Also, I wanted to point out are we sure that Spoo's money doesn't measure up to M.Anton's? Hats the proper way to say it, the Jay-z in me,however wants to say: Are we certain Spoos paper isn't as long or longer than Mantons.