OFFICIAL Simon Crompton thread (PermanentStyle.com)

[lordsuperb]

I certainly don't think the coat warrants such an outrageous price, but let's for the sake of argument assume that it does because it's just that expensive to make (with a typical margin included ofc).
Then that means bespoke tailoring's value is utterly and completely gone. I mean, it largely already has become more luxury than value, no matter what Simon tries to tell, but 5k is still something achievable by good earners, maybe once every several years. If you truly use such a garment for a very very long time, perhaps a decade or two (already very unlikely) it just might end up being a reasonable cost.

But now we're getting into the price of a small car.
I am Italian, literally no one that works a normal job could entertain the thought of that sum here for a coat, not even really well paying jobs.
Big celebrities, sure, but then...
I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't even really matter how good the product is if no normal person can buy it. It begs the question whether the product should even be made in the first place, rather.
And if those were really the necessary prices for bespoke tailoring, I'm afraid the trade would die out for good, there's probably not enough A-list celebrities to sustain it.

It’s obvious Liverano is no longer chasing that market and has become a Veblen good. If there’s a demand for the coat why not charge those prices. There are plenty of Florentine tailors that the everyday Italian man can go to where they aren’t paying an arm and a leg.

 

[othertravel]

I've always believed that bespoke tailoring has little to no value proposition (assuming you have a relatively average-sized/shaped body that can adapt to MTM or MTO programs). How much is a Liverano or Savile Row suit these days? Perhaps 8-9k USD? My understanding is that one of the main appeals of bespoke tailoring is the ability to have the garments repaired or altered if necessary. But I have seen here on Styleforum that some simple alterations on such a suit by a top-level maker could cost over $1000 USD. For the cost of such alterations, I could almost purchase a new fully-canvassed Ring Jacket suit from the Armoury. It is unclear to me that bespoke tailoring could ever have any financial benefits.

For SR, isn’t it more like $6K+? Maybe even a few cheaper places?

In NY, David Reeves is offering beginner bespoke for $4K.

@David Reeves , what are your thoughts on this, considering you work in the sector?

 

[othertravel]

It’s obvious Liverano is no longer chasing that market and has become a Veblen good. If there’s a demand for the coat why not charge those prices. There are plenty of Florentine tailors that the everyday Italian man can go to where they aren’t paying an arm and a leg.

View attachment 2130149

Church’s is a good example of this. They doubled their prices last year, and are not doing well. They did not get the Veblen effect as they presumably hoped for.

 

[vegancrabcakes]

For SR, isn’t it more like $6K+? Maybe even a few cheaper places?

In NY, David Reeves is offering beginner bespoke for $4K.

@David Reeves , what are your thoughts on this, considering you work in the sector?

Based on Simon's website, most SR places were £5,000+ 2-3 years ago, and I imagine prices have only gone up since. Sexton starts at £6,600. Huntsman NYC starts at $9500.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Question for this forum. I have attempted to post the below three times on Simon Crompton’s PS article about the $15k Ulster coat but it is not showing up in the comments thread. Am I doing something wrong?

******

Simon,

It is a beautiful coat. My concern, rather, is one of forthrightness concerning comments to the effect that the pricing has gone up disproportionately and your response that this is an exercise in responding to inflation generally and maintaining margins specifically. And that one is entitled to one’s opinion but that such is at best a subjective exercise.

At issue, for me, is that this cuts again your broader argument that many of the joys of bespoke and well-made clothing are its sustainability, its support for local artisans and merchants, its value even to the common man.

And what I suspect is actually going on, because I have seen it done in other industries, is that Liverano and similarly situated companies are engaging in optimization pricing, having determined that they can maintain or even increase their profitability by making fewer products at higher prices.

And the problem herein is that this is in fact less sustainable — it requires the same overhead and increased travel costs to produce fewer goods; it is less local — the emphasis becomes on selling overseas rather than in the local community, which also significantly increases the environmental footprint; it supports fewer craftspeople, salespeople and component merchants — making fewer items means less business and the underlying goods costs and labor rates are more commoditized and thus fixed in nature; it makes these goods unaffordable for people of more modest means and destroys the long-term value proposition — if fewer people can save up to purchase such an item they will move down market to lower-quality, less-sustainable goods that provide less benefit to local communities.

To which you may respond that I am entitled to my opinion and such are the ways of the world. But this is not universally the case: were I of the opinion that it is better for me to fly my private plane around Europe rather than rely on the rails, such would be permitted to me by license but it wouldn’t be good for the planet or my fellow inhabitants. And analogous arguments are easily permitted here.

And my specific concern is that I suspect you actually could uncover these truths as part of your journalistic mission. Is Liverano in fact making as much product as it was five years ago, such that this is simply an exercise in supply and demand pricing and responding to increasing costs, or is it taking advantage of a captive audience and what is essentially free advertising on sites like PS to sell fewer goods at higher margins? You wouldn’t need to know their underlying financials to find this answer — and you could then share it with us to our mutual benefit.

You enjoy a privileged position in this small intimate market, and I gather you benefit from it enormously: in sales and advertising revenue, in consulting work, in preferential treatment from makers (more attention to your products knowing a review is in the offing, opportunities to purchase expensive goods essentially at cost).

But this is a privilege afforded by your readership, not the makers of these luxury goods, and I would argue that you owe it to the former to do some investigative work and take a more critical approach to the underlying business practices (not just the narrower comments on craftsmanship and quality) that characterize these artisans.

I look forward to your response.

Thomas

PS I should note that my own economic situation—I am a Manhattan-based business professional—would make a purchase such as this entirely in the realm of the possible. But I come from more modest means and so have a special animus towards economic practices that limit access to good, beautiful things that can bring joy for decades. And I am concerned that Liverano is trading on its sprezzatura reputation while engaging in practices that are essentially capitalist (i.e., profit maximizing).

The PS moderators seeing this post

 

[sargeinaz]

The PS moderators seeing this post
View attachment 2130181

As they should.

 

[othertravel]

Based on Simon's website, most SR places were £5,000+ 2-3 years ago, and I imagine prices have only gone up since. Sexton starts at £6,600. Huntsman NYC starts at $9500.

Right, I guess that’s the standard. Hitchcock starts at 5200 pounds, but I’m assuming he’s considered off the row.

 

[GabrielJF]

Any one here going to be scrumming to get Cromps to sign something?

 

[Treble]

Any one here going to be scrumming to get Cromps to sign something?

Make sure to wear a PS Cashmere Rugby if so

 

[DorianGreen]

Very useful address, unfortunately, only for British residents.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2024...care.html?mc_cid=e3f2adc039&mc_eid=277eb01ada

 

[Iskander]

Does anyone have the PS overshirt? How much does it shrink in the wash? Debating between L/XL

 

[jellyroller]

I picked up a copy of Simon’s new book, The Casual Style Guide. I enjoyed it but wouldn’t say it’s a must have.

 

[te0o]

Does anyone have the PS overshirt? How much does it shrink in the wash? Debating between L/XL

Shrinks a good 3/4" in length or thereabouts. Not much if at all in terms of width.

 

[ZRH1]

I checked the accounts of Liverano for 2023, which are not under their real name so a tad convoluted. The margins are surprisingly low, so even though Veblen may be what happens at revenue level, at the end they need such ridiculous high pricing to survive. For your reference, in 2023 they made only 18'000 EUR profit, down from 30'000 EUR of 2022.

 

[wafflingwaffles]

I checked the accounts of Liverano for 2023, which are not under their real name so a tad convoluted. The margins are surprisingly low, so even though Veblen may be what happens at revenue level, at the end they need such ridiculous high pricing to survive. For your reference, in 2023 they made only 18'000 EUR profit, down from 30'000 EUR of 2022.

Shockingly low. But very interesting, thanks. Got a link?