Asian American Overachievers when test taking endsing ends.

Originally Posted by pebblegrain

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entrepreneurs and managers yes, C level no

OK, many was overstating it, but there are a fair number of them: Nvidia, Yahoo, a handful of semiconductor-related companies, especially if "Asian" includes Indians, too.

--Andre

Originally Posted by haganah

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In my experience in banking, Asian kids were the ones that took criticism in the worst of ways. And I have had 2 Asian bosses and both have been the most anal, get lost in the details, make anyone under you miserable kind of way. I hope (and think) that my experiences are outliers.

My direct supervisor is Asian. His supervisor (Senior Exec) is Asian. They are both terrible at communication, are afraid to speak up and "rock the boat", and always attempt to force-fit analysis to what their audience wants. Most second year analysts have more leadership skills than these two. There is absolutely no way that either of them will be promoted above their current positions.

They are both very smart and hard working. I will be happy to manage a group of their clones in a few years.

Just to throw some more stereotype busters out there, my Vietnamese coworker is constantly pushing the envelope of what is allowed at work. He sends out subversive emails and ***** with management constantly. Also he's 6'2" and about 220lbs, a former track athlete, and married to a white chick so he busts all types of asian stereotypes.

The problem cuts both ways.

It's true that many Asian-Americans are raised to be hard-working and disciplined at the expense of less tangible leadership-related qualities. Mainly, what I witnessed growing up in a very large Asian-American community was an overemphasis on quantitative measures of academic ability (grades, scores, etc.), an exceptional reluctance to question authority, and underdeveloped social skills. On top of that, there are also the two, constant nagging reminders from older Asians: (1) no matter what you do, you will look like an Asian and that's how the world will see you, so don't waste any time entertaining the notion of assimilating with more mainstream American culture, and (2) Asians are better than white people anyway, so don't degrade yourself. The result for most of us Asian Americans is a challenged relationship with the culture and society that surrounds us, a disbelief in our ability to succeed the same way white Americans succeed, combined with a dueling self-hate and superiority complex.

On the other hand, other Americans certainly do see Asian Americans a certain kind of way (hard-working, good at math, meek, and--most ludicrously and offensively--soulless). All Asians to them become a caricature, a collective whole without individuals worth distinguishing. This is, of course, unfair and racist, though many would struggle to rationalize that it's not the same as generalizing that blacks are violent, hispanics are lazy, or that Jews are penny-counters. Clearly, it's all terrible and makes it harder for indivuals belonging to such groups to be treated as individuals. For Asian Americans, this only reinforces the belief that we can never compete on the same grounds and should never bother reaching beyond doctor or engineer (lawyer if you're rebellious).

However, there is often a self-knowing hyprocisy and jealousy underlying such bigotry. Growing up, it did not escape me that the same white parents who denounced Asian American students for being soulless when they beat their own kids in school, sports, art, music, etc., secretly schemed to get their children in with very same Asian-exclusive Asian tutors or piano teachers who were spreading all the soullessness. My friends' parents were always asking my parents for their 'secret' and requesting that I help their kids study after school.

What came first, the impression or the reality? It's impossible to say and moot, as neither side is justified in its outlook.

^^^ Some of this is overwrought, I mean you are asking people not to notice very widespread and obvious patterns and then getting mad and calling them names when they do.

Gets back to something I posted earlier. It's a tenet of modern, left-influenced multicultural life that we all have to "celebrate diversity" but if we point out any concrete manifestations of diversity, well, that is racist, stereotyping and bad.

Originally Posted by Manton

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^^^ Some of this is overwrought, I mean you are asking people not to notice very widespread and obvious patterns and then getting mad and calling them names when they do.

Gets back to something I posted earlier. It's a tenet of modern, left-influenced multicultural life that we all have to "celebrate diversity" but if we point out any concrete manifestations of diversity, well, that is racist, stereotyping and bad.

No, I'm asking people not to judge individuals based on what they generalize about large groups of people. That is hardly overwrought. You don't find it offensive that Asians are often raised to view whites as lazier and stupider than them? By multiple quantitative measures, it's just a widespread, obvious pattern.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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No, I'm asking people not to judge individuals based on what they generalize about large groups of people. That is hardly overwrought. You don't find it offensive that Asians are often raised to view whites as lazier and stupider than them? By multiple quantitative measures, it's just a widespread, obvious pattern.

Of course everyone who is not an idiot realizes that individuals are what they are, but non-idiots also tend to notice group patterns as well. I mean, nobody says "Oh, ****, Koreatown, roll up the windows, lock the doors and don't stop at any lights!!"

Originally Posted by Manton

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Of course everyone who is not an idiot realizes that individuals are what they are, but non-idiots also tend to notice group patterns as well. I mean, nobody says "Oh, ****, Koreatown, roll up the windows, lock the doors and don't stop at any lights!!"

You must have a higher opinion of people in general than I do. By your definition, most people are idiots.

Originally Posted by Manton

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^^^ Some of this is overwrought, I mean you are asking people not to notice very widespread and obvious patterns and then getting mad and calling them names when they do.

Gets back to something I posted earlier. It's a tenet of modern, left-influenced multicultural life that we all have to "celebrate diversity" but if we point out any concrete manifestations of diversity, well, that is racist, stereotyping and bad.

To be fair, the type of diversity that is supposed to be celebrated is the good stuff, like awesome Chinese food, black music, pinatas, etc..., not negative generalizations like crime-prone blacks, lazy Latinos, and robotic Asians. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by LA Guy

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To be fair, the type of diversity that is supposed to be celebrated is the good stuff, like awesome Chinese food, black music, pinatas, etc..., not negative generalizations like crime-prone blacks, lazy Latinos, and robotic Asians. Just sayin'.
This is matter of what is allowed to be spoken of, not what it is inevitable that minimally observant people can see with their own two eyes.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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You must have a higher opinion of people in general than I do. By your definition, most people are idiots.

I bet we are closer than you think on this.

I rarely ever post or respond to any topic online, but i stumbled onto this topic, and felt a strong urge to respond. I'll try not to be verbose.
The bottom line is I feel that steriotypes seem to be supported by the media and hollywood cinema. What you see and hear about is what you believe. Thats natural. When you attempt to differentiate the rumors and the facts its not very easy. Koreans are conservative. You will not see koreans aspiring to become actors or actresses. That being said you should understand that if there is very few asian actors or actresses you are bound to see the same people in movies, and commercials. This is evident, you find the same people representing asians. And for me to be frank, I find more layed back, chill koreans on the street then I do on tv. They couldnt find one "cool" korean and portray him on tv. All these years, and you end up with someone like ken jeong from the show community. So most people will have a false or very limited image of asians which is not the reality. Its irritating to get pushed into the one category. Asian. I wouldnt disrespect my british or italian friend by refering to them both as europeans. But since america is widely controlled by non-asians it is accepted that we are all referred to as asians. Another thing i'd like to mention is that Chinese people do not look the same as Koreans. You will find exceptions. But to be honest i cant tell the difference what part of europe your from if your white either. I will probably guess german, or Irish. Maybe italian. Bottom line is koreans and all asians need to stop disrespecting their own community. Have confidence in what you do. Carry yourself with karisma. People will respect you. If not, **** them. You will see more asians at the top of the ladder. Keep an eye out, peace.

I'd like to add that Foo is correct, to a point. Where he goes wrong is with the children of the HK exodus of 1997. These immigrants did not come to Canada or the US for greater economic opportunities, so their attitudes were considerably different from the older wave of immigrants.

Clearly the NFL needs more Asian quarterbacks so that white people will think Asians can be effective team leaders.

If asian people had the desire to become team leaders I think it would happen. The other races in the U.S. White,black,spanish outnumber asians. Im impressed at the amount of ceo's that are asian with so little asians striving in that direction to begin with.