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Asian American Overachievers when test taking endsing ends.

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by Master Milano, May 10, 2011.

  1. vaalbara

    vaalbara Senior member

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    Correct.

    please stop posting
     
  2. DidYouknow

    DidYouknow Member

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  3. calisanfran

    calisanfran Senior member

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    are the CEOs of mitsuibishi, toyota, hyundai, Canon, Sony, Honda white people??

    I thought about this, but then again do as many whites work at junior levels at mitsubishi, honda, hyundai, etc as asians do in a typical american company?
     
  4. calisanfran

    calisanfran Senior member

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    Forbes is published in International and Local editions.

    Lists are different.

    And, yes, media is biased wherever you live.



    We are talking about a list related to the US VC industry. The OP has to do with Asian Americans in the US. Not elsewhere.
     
  5. yjeezle

    yjeezle Senior member

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    I thought about this, but then again do as many whites work at junior levels at mitsubishi, honda, hyundai, etc as asians do in a typical american company?
    yes there are quite a few. very few get to upper management unless you come from somewhere amazing like m/b/b
     
  6. alphaO888

    alphaO888 Senior member

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    The issue that I have with the author of this New York Magazine article is that he's what I call an Asian self-hater. He starts out by stating how he's Asian yet he has no Asian friends, doesn't know how to speak another language, etc. etc. Then he goes on to talk about how Asians weren't meant to be leaders or upper management in American companies. Then he interviews some PUA with a horrible lisp to try to justify his points.

    People set their own limits and boundaries regardless of their race or ethnicity. The article read like it was a massive complaint letter to American society about how unfair corporate America is towards the us Asians. You control who you are, how you act, and how you work. For the author to generalize a population that has been in the US since the 1800's is pretty ridiculous.
     
  7. forStyle

    forStyle Well-Known Member

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    People set their own limits and boundaries regardless of their race or ethnicity. The article read like it was a massive complaint letter to American society about how unfair corporate America is towards the us Asians. You control who you are, how you act, and how you work. For the author to generalize a population that has been in the US since the 1800's is pretty ridiculous.
    Well, you could say the same for blacks in the 1950's. But they did require a civil rights movement. The important question is whether there an unfair bias against Asian Americans. The article tries to point this out, but I agree it does not do a good job.
     
  8. thenanyu

    thenanyu Senior member

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    ... You control who you are, how you act, and how you work. For the author to generalize a population that has been in the US since the 1800's is pretty ridiculous.
    I think you misread the article. The author is laying out the issues involved in his attempts to assimilate completely into American society and the unavoidable hurdles being Asian puts in front of him. How people act is a function of their upbringing as much as personal decisions. Dude who grew up in the ghetto will talk a certain way, and not because he decided to. I had to turbo-learn a lot of etiquette and social conventions by myself even though I have lived in the United States since age 5. Parents are responsible for a huge proportion of learning during formative years and the thing my parents could never teach me how to do was fit in. The issue isn't about corporate America discriminating against Asians, the issue is Asians struggling to learn what makes white people comfortable. We are in the laowai country and it will take many more generations to integrate completely. When we are 15% of the population, it will make a big difference.
     
  9. kasper007

    kasper007 Senior member

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    The issue isn't about corporate America discriminating against Asians, the issue is Asians struggling to learn what makes white people comfortable. We are in the laowai country and it will take many more generations to integrate completely. When we are 15% of the population, it will make a big difference.

    I think focusing on the perceived lack of social skills in America is somewhat oversimplifying the situation. I think a better question to ask is how effective is a typical east asian education with its heavy focus on memorization and standard test taking abilities at providing adequate preparation for a business career. From my experience, the answer is not at all. Having had the chance to study at an elite university in Japan, i witnessed first hand the shortcoming of the "asian" model. Students had spend their entire teen getting ready for an ENTRANCE EXAM and had done very little else and it showed. Most of the students were far behind in terms of maturity, problem solving, forming an educated opinion based on own research, etc. As a results, the average Tokyo, Seoul National or Beijing university student at graduation has tremendous potential, but is somewhat useless and possess very few marketable skills. For example, IBs / MCs in Japan have a very strong bias toward foreign educated candidates and would often prefer someone that has studied at a 2nd tier US university vs. a Todai, Waseda or Keio grad.
     
  10. Desi

    Desi Senior member

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    are the CEOs of mitsuibishi, toyota, hyundai, Canon, Sony, Honda white people??

    Howard Stringer for Sony.
     
  11. eg1

    eg1 Senior member

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    You must have a higher opinion of people in general than I do. By your definition, most people are idiots.

    I bet we are closer than you think on this.

    A misanthropic engineer friend of mine has a numerical expression for this group -- "the 95ers". If we are brutally honest with ourselves, I am sure there are contexts wherein each and every one of us belongs firmly among them. YMMV
     
  12. TonyHuynhTwo

    TonyHuynhTwo Member

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    This is an absolutely unbelievable thread.

    I'm a first generation Asian-American. It's pretty obvious to me why Asians aren't proportionately represented in corporate management, asians that want to run a business own their own businesses. My dad has always owned his own business, most of his Asian friends own their own businesses, and most of my extended family own their own businesses. My uncle worked for a server management company for five years as a division head before leaving to open up a chain of gas stations. After the COO and CFO of his former company were fired for impropriety as fiduciary's, my uncle was offered the COO position. Which he declined because the offer was significantly lower than what he was earning as a small business owner.

    For the self-hating Asian from the first page: it sounds like to you got the short end of the stick when it came to looks, personality (obviously), and racial tolerance. For me I'm attractive, intelligent, well adjusted, and very charismatic (pre-requisites for a salesman). None of these traits can be directly attributed to my race, because none of these are racial characteristics. I feel sorry for the people that put stock into generalizations and racial stereotypes, because they're never going to fully understand the people in the world they live in. How could a person that thinks all Black people are lazy and dumb, explain a Black President that was able to locate and kill the most wanted terrorist in the world; a feat his white predecessor was unable to accomplish. Everybody conceptualizes the world differently, some choose to make judgements about other people before they get to know them because of preconceived notions about a group, while I myself like to get to know individuals before making my own judgements about them. Race is just one of those useless and outdated socially constructed ideas people cling on to that really serve no purpose.
     
  13. Cavalier

    Cavalier Senior member

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    From what I've seen and heard, 16-25 year old Indian kids' ambitions have been pacified by obtaining coveted iPhone ownership and shopping/walking around malls. I see azns heading down similar path.
     
  14. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    Tony, did that have anything to do with Asian immigrants being pre-approved for business loans?

    This completely changed the face of the Gulf of Mexico shrimping industry for instance. I still to this day hear groans and complaints from native ex-fishermen in TX and LA who were put out of business by this.
     
  15. Stazy

    Stazy Senior member

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    The business school I went to had tonnes of Asian students who mostly majored in accounting or finance. That being said, that's ALL they did. All the business clubs were dominated by white kids who, by virtue of their involvement, had far more networking opportunities and more well rounded resumes. There is more to success than 4.0 GPAs...
     
  16. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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  17. Kajak

    Kajak Senior member

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    The issue isn't about corporate America discriminating against Asians, the issue is Asians struggling to learn what makes white people comfortable. We are in the laowai country and it will take many more generations to integrate completely. When we are 15% of the population, it will make a big difference.

    +1

    If I were to emigrate to Asia, I would not expect my Western mannerisms, habits, leadership/work style etc to be as successful as it is here. Likewise, in a Western business environment, raising children in the "Tiger Family" or whatever fails horribly at setting a child up for corporate/executive success here. It just teaches the wrong skill set.
     
  18. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Moderator

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    +1

    If I were to emigrate to Asia, I would not expect my Western mannerisms, habits, leadership/work style etc to be as successful as it is here. Likewise, in a Western business environment, raising children in the "Tiger Family" or whatever fails horribly at setting a child up for corporate/executive success here. It just teaches the wrong skill set.


    I made a point a while back, but it seems to have been lost. Pretty much "every" first generation Chinese family is a Tiger family. However, until fairly recently, these immigrants were coming to the US and Canada for economic opportunities, and they did not have the capabilities to groom their children for real leadership roles. In any culture, people tend to stay within their socio-economic class. There are compelling exceptions, but they are exceptions nonetheless.

    That working class Chinese have been able to groom their children, within a single generation, to middle and upper-middle class success should not be looked on as a failure. I think that this thread shows clearly that the fact that it is is wound up with insidious cultural stereotypes. I don't think that an African American who made it out of the slums to become a doctor would be looked on as a failure. I don't think that a white woman who becomes the first of her working class family to graduate college and become and engineer would be viewed as a failure. And yet, posters have characterized the Asian guy who made it to the same level as anemic, lacking in social graces, lacking in leadership potential, etc...

    There are second generation Chinese immigrants who become successful "leaders", and unsurprisingly, those I know nearly all come from more affluent and educated families who have assimilated more fully with western culture, while maintaining a lot of the discipline that is a characteristic of Chinese culture. Again, there are, of course, exceptions.
     

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