State of BIGLAW update (NYU 2L)

dopey · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Please give me better (hopefully encouraging) advice

plastics

texas_jack · Jul 31, 2009

can you work for the gov?

Ambulance Chaser · Jul 31, 2009

What's wrong with non-BigLaw? I assume it pays mid to high five figures. Too many young associates fall victim to the trappings of material success (e.g., the Bimmer, dinners out every night, bottle service at the hottest clubs) and then complain about student loans. Leaving within your means should allow you to pay back debt even if you don't get a job with Skadden.

luftvier · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Well, OCI is approaching and I'm preparing for the bloodbath. I have poor grades (I think around bottom 1/3), which I hear didn't used to matter too much, but things have changed. No more median-->Skadden. I'm just wondering what the BIGLAWYERS think will happen. What %% of people from places like NYU will be able to get v100? More layoffs? Salary cuts? etc.

If you are in NYC and not in the top 5%, you are screwed anyway. Unless you want to work at the Manhattan DA.

Boned. Open up your own shop.

OCI is all but useless this year. How far in debt are you anyway? Can you still pull out and save your money?

luftvier · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

NYU cost ~70K year when you count housing etc. I NEED biglaw just to make a living.

You are not getting BigLaw. No one is. BigLaw is canceling classes and deferring left and right.

Find another solution. Move out of NYC. Get to a better legal market.

Besides, do you really wanna work 100+ hours a week for 5 years reviewing documents, never actually being a real lawyer?

crazyquik · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by teddieriley

Why does the vandalism of the books in the library matter anyway? All you need is your own class notes, previous outlines from former students and your case books. Students tearing out pages to any hard copy sample/prior tests or answers thereto that are only available in the library, would be disadvantageous, however.

Classic first year research assignment will have students do a wild goose chase through the library so they can "learn to research with books" before feasting on the buffet of Lexis and Westlaw.

I hadn't thought about hard copy sample/prior tests.

Manhappenin · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser

What's wrong with non-BigLaw? I assume it pays mid to high five figures. Too many young associates fall victim to the trappings of material success (e.g., the Bimmer, dinners out every night, bottle service at the hottest clubs) and then complain about student loans. Leaving within your means should allow you to pay back debt even if you don't get a job with Skadden.

Non-Biglaw would be fine without debt. I will have TONS when I finish

Originally Posted by luftvier

If you are in NYC and not in the top 5%, you are screwed anyway. Unless you want to work at the Manhattan DA.

Boned. Open up your own shop.

OCI is all but useless this year. How far in debt are you anyway? Can you still pull out and save your money?

I don't agree with your 5% number. Hiring will be significantly reduced, but there are still over 400 firms with multiple offices coming in the fall. I'm not really sure how much debt I have now, but I will have ~200K when I graduate

intent · Jul 31, 2009

Being bottom 1/3 of class at NYU doesn't mean you'll automatically be top 10% at other law schools. On the other hand, the name alone should get you a decent small/mid-size firm job.

teddieriley · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by intent

Being bottom 1/3 of class at NYU doesn't mean you'll automatically be top 10% at other law schools. On the other hand, the name alone should get you a decent small/mid-size firm job.

Oh, I'm not saying it's automatic. I was giving him (and those similarly situated) the benefit of the doubt and anticipating some sort of weak argument that if he had gone to a lesser ranked school, he would have done better since grades are all relative. But in any event, I do think a mid-size or smaller firm would be his best bet since such a firm would be more inclined to latch on to the "prestige" and tout on their websites that their attorneys are from top schools like NYU.

Don't worry about loans. Lock in your federal loan rate now (you can). They are at all time lows at around 2.5%. I don't think they're going to get better than that. As for private loans, deal with those later.

Ambulance Chaser · Jul 31, 2009

Interview with firms in less competitive markets like Indianapolis, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh. You'll get paid less, but the cost of living is a lot lower.

constant struggle · Jul 31, 2009

Might as well show up to the local lawyer in your town and ask them if they need a receptionist, you are screwed.

intent · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by teddieriley

Oh, I'm not saying it's automatic. I was giving him (and those similarly situated) the benefit of the doubt and anticipating some sort of weak argument that if he had gone to a lesser ranked school, he would have done better since grades are all relative. But in any event, I do think a mid-size or smaller firm would be his best bet since such a firm would be more inclined to latch on to the "prestige" and tout on their websites that their attorneys are from top schools like NYU.

Don't worry about loans. Lock in your federal loan rate now (you can). They are at all time lows at around 2.5%. I don't think they're going to get better than that. As for private loans, deal with those later.
True. I think you need to ask yourself: "Do I have what it takes to be a great lawyer?" If not, take full advantage of your law school's reputation and cash in at some firm desperate to tell others it has a NYU grad, and hopefully you can last 4 years before they realize you don't have what it takes. By that time, lateral elsewhere and repeat.

teddieriley · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by intent

True. I think you need to ask yourself: "Do I have what it takes to be a great lawyer?"

This is difficult to know until you start working and understand what it actually takes to be a "great lawyer" by working with others and observing those around you. No law student will be able to make this assessment. You can be a great transactional lawyer but a suck-ass adversarial one, or vice versa. Working hard also won't guarantee you'll be a great lawyer. A good and sufficient one, sure.

zarathustra · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by intent

True. I think you need to ask yourself: "Do I have what it takes to be a great lawyer?"

it is called bill, bill some more and then bill even more.

luftvier · Jul 31, 2009

Originally Posted by Manhappenin

Non-Biglaw would be fine without debt. I will have TONS when I finish I don't agree with your 5% number. Hiring will be significantly reduced, but there are still over 400 firms with multiple offices coming in the fall. I'm not really sure how much debt I have now, but I will have ~200K when I graduate
Have you ever read Above the Law? While sensational, it squares the issue clearly: BigLaw is fucked for the next few years. Here's some info on OCI program cancellations. If you have $200k when you graduate, you may have made some poor financial decisions. You're not alone. A lot of my friends paid full tuition for undergrad, and then paid full tuition again for law school and are in the same boat. That said, you have to be creative and market yourself. As silly as this sounds, join Twitter and start following attorneys, the ABA, etc. Get yourself to happy hours. Meet people. Order business cards if you don't already. With so many firms using the Cravath model for hiring, anyone in the bottom 1/3d of the class is NOT going to be suitable in the eyes of BigLaw hiring partners. Same thing with people from TTT schools. It's just a fact of life. It's one of many reasons why I will never work in Big Law in NYC. You have got to hustle. Get to know everyone you possibly can. Work on your dammed grades. Are you on Moot Court or Journal? Alternatively, try Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc. Cheaper cost of living. Comparable salaries.

State of BIGLAW update (NYU 2L)

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