Vintage Dress shoe appreciation, tips, maintenance and advice

[friendlygoz]

Well, I dunno what they are from an uppers standpoint, but the construction is interesting. The insole is a solid, thick, high-quality leather insole like what you’d see in a GYW shoe, and there’s no sign of a Blake stitch visible on the insole or sole. The interior construction and materials are certainly not that of a cheap glued shoe.

Yet, I don’t think these are Blake (hidden channel or otherwise), I think they are a GYW shoe sans-rapid outsole stitch. It might be an optical illusion, but it looks like there is a welt/sole separation (since bonwelts weren’t a thing back then, provided my eyes are correct, you can assume that welt is attached to something). For a while in the 70’s and early 80’s (in my estimation), a few manufacturers (FootJoy being one, IIRC) experimented with simply using adhesive to attach the outsole to the welt. This allowed them to trim the welt very tightly, since they didn’t have to worry about the outsole stitch. In theory, they can still be resoled by separating the sole and welt with a solvent and then gluing a new on with whatever space-age goop was the latest in chemical miracles. In the right hands, they could even be recrafted with a new welt, and then outsole stitched like any other GYW.

IIRC, I recall @davidVC even had a pair, such as these, start suffering from welt/sole separation during his work day.

It’s also possible I hallucinated all of this due to chemical inhalation during last years restoration challenge, so take it for what it’s worth.

Huh... the John Lobb sales guy knew a lot about shoes, and he was pretty confused. He though tthey were blake stiched until he looked at the insole. They he though that maybe the stitching was under the insole. If they have any sort of stitching, BY, blake, or otherwise, there are no signs of it.

 

[mph57]

Can anyone help me with an approximate date of these Florsheim moccasins? Picked these up today at the thrift store. They're labeled as "Sit'n Bull Moccasins" by the "Florsheim Shoe Shop." I've attached a few pictures. On the first line of the inside heel I can read the shoe size however on the second line it reads 8CA4 8F 7458. I'm guessing the date code is 8F? However, I don't know how to decipher the date. Pictures included. Any thoughts?

 

[wasmisterfu]

Allen-Edmonds "Belgium" from about 1984. They're corrected grain, just like the burgundy "Polo" saddle shoes that I purchased in 1986, and still have. These shoes were found in April using David's Watch List, which is such a great resource.

View attachment 1198416

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Just a quick note: calling circa ‘84 AE polished cobbler CG doesn’t do it justice. There’s nothing defective or crap about the leather they used (as I learned when de-CG’ing my ‘84 McAllister competition shoes). Once the wavy wrinkles have set in, you can strip ‘em and get a whole second life out of them.

Those are gorgeous examples of the Belgium!

 

[wasmisterfu]

If we're going to discuss the merits of the Derby, here is a pair I've been watching without being moved to purchase. MiUSA "Breather" Wright Arch Preserver. Near NOS. Dirt cheap (up for auction, but they've been relisted a couple times).

Vintage Breather Wright Arch Preserver Brown Leather Dress Shoes 13 AA | eBay

AA so Narrow width. 1 Small scuff on back of left shoes otherwise they look new!

www.ebay.com

Most of my Derbies are Alden NST, so I'm not opposed to wearing a Derby. But the leather on these appear to have taken a bit of a beating. #DISCUSS

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Why couldn’t those be anywhere from 13B to D. Why they gotta be 13AA.

 

[wasmisterfu]

Allow me to digress here a moment. That money for those shoes is just f***ing stupid.

So, you don’t think they’re a good value?

 

[wasmisterfu]

Huh... the John Lobb sales guy knew a lot about shoes, and he was pretty confused. He though tthey were blake stiched until he looked at the insole. They he though that maybe the stitching was under the insole. If they have any sort of stitching, BY, blake, or otherwise, there are no signs of it.

So the welt, if there is one (which at least in the picture there appears to be one), has no outsole to welt stitch (just glue holds the sole in place); but the welt itself is still sewn to the rib. All the stitching is internal and hidden. Again, I’ve seen it once before, twice if @davidVC confirms he had such a pair (I could have sworn we had a post about just such shoes a year ago).

 

[actionjbone]

I realized I hadn't worn these Bostonian Crown Aristocraft Windsor shell shortwings in a while, so decided to pull them out for some sunshine today. That's one downside of having an expanding collection of vintage shoes -- sometimes old favorites get a bit less attention than they deserve.

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Huh. Those are nearly identical to my Barrie Ltd. shell shortwings. (photo from a few weeks ago, shoes needed brushing)

 

[wasmisterfu]

My mouth is still open in shock that these actually exist...even though I shouldn't be. The distressed uppers I get. The stupid sole logo, ok. They "pre-wear" the heels down. That's bad, but still keeping in with the distressed look, even if taking it too far. BUT, they actually went so far as to wrinkle the heel pad?????

I’ve tired to imagine the customer who would buy such a thing, but I can’t wrap my head around it. Yet, the first example or two that they came out with this faux-treatment, has now turned into a whole LINEUP! Think about that, it’s so popular, they expanded the lineup, and have iterated this insanity with new versions! And they’re among the MOST expensive shoes in their RTW line! Obviously Prada knows things we don’t

 

[actionjbone]

Today's shoes. Not technically vintage, but noteworthy because they are the first really good shoes I actively shopped for.

AE Jackson, still one of my most comfortable pairs. On its second set of soles.

Got them at Syms several years ago. Used to wear them much more often, before I started getting into older vintage.

If not for this pair, I might still be wearing $30 Bill Blass garbage.

 

[OmBom]

Just a quick note: calling circa ‘84 AE polished cobbler CG doesn’t do it justice. There’s nothing defective or crap about the leather they used (as I learned when de-CG’ing my ‘84 McAllister competition shoes). Once the wavy wrinkles have set in, you can strip ‘em and get a whole second life out of them.

Those are gorgeous examples of the Belgium!

Correct, the CG coating is not covering up inferior leather, at least not on Allen-Edmonds. As I understand it, they thought CG shoes would sell well because they require less maintenance by being more weather resistant. I wore the heck out of my AE Polos in the '80s and they held up very well. These Belgiums are on the 674 last which I've never tried. I hope they work out. thanks!

 

[wasmisterfu]

Well I didn’t wear wingtips today, but I did, this evening, start examining my comp shoes from last year, as I haven’t done any maintenance on them at all since the competition. After wearing them a lot (including a stint where they remained on my feet continuously for 37 or so hours), they’re starting to look like they need some attention. I’m debating whether to do something basic (leather lotion and some polish/wax) or more substantial... not sure I want to invest the time right now as they’re going to need resoling very soon (the 4th set by the looks of it).

So here they are, in all their de-CG’d glory, 10 months later (before maintenance):

(By no maintenance, I mean nothing other than brushing).

 

[eTrojan]

Sharkskin AE Nassaus today.

 

[Shoonoob]

Those are fantastic looking. You are an artist, good sir. I’ll DM you at some point with some questions as your skills are next-level.

The interior lining construction of the example shown looks like standard (North American) Imperial Florsheim. What makes you think they won’t last? The leather on my 80’s and early 90’s AE’s is super soft and supple, but damn near indestructible (as long as you keep the leather hydrated). Or is it some other aspect that worries you?

I’ll say that on North American blue-label Florsheim’s, by the late 80’s the quality of the interior lining leather was totally bunk (US made Imperial’s and Royal Imperial’s still used decent stuff). You may recall these 1989 Florsheim Penfield’s (20308) from my great mold saga:

I did ultimately get the mold smell out of them and the uppers are still in decent shape despite heavy use this winter. But the interior leather linings (the black stuff Florsheim used starting in the mid 80’s for blue-label) completely self-destructed. The heel pad, sides, etc, are all going to need full replacing; luckily the majority of the interior is cotton-drill, so it’s not as huge a job as it might have been if they were fully leather lined. Hopefully, once fixed and resoled, the rest of the shoe holds up because they’re very comfortable and look great.

Well...Im gonna say they are almost the exact same construction as your Penfields. Does anyone have any late 80's Florsheim catalogues laying around? There is a green poron like heel pad which makes them ultra comfy but I don't know how it will wear over time. They just don't feel like they will last thru 25 years of any kind of wear.
The sole is pretty worn out on the ones just delivered. Perhaps I will send them for a recraft if they clean up well enough and I will ask for photos during deconstruction.

 

[right_hook]

So the welt, if there is one (which at least in the picture there appears to be one), has no outsole to welt stitch (just glue holds the sole in place); but the welt itself is still sewn to the rib. All the stitching is internal and hidden. Again, I’ve seen it once before, twice if @davidVC confirms he had such a pair (I could have sworn we had a post about just such shoes a year ago).

Or everything is more simple - they took quality materials and just glued them together. As italians like to do.

 

[right_hook]

I’ve tired to imagine the customer who would buy such a thing, but I can’t wrap my head around it. Yet, the first example or two that they came out with this faux-treatment, has now turned into a whole LINEUP! Think about that, it’s so popular, they expanded the lineup, and have iterated this insanity with new versions! And they’re among the MOST expensive shoes in their RTW line! Obviously Prada knows things we don’t

I just wanted to argue that while we dont get and like it but those are exactly the designs which help some brands (prada, for example) to sell whole lot of shoes/sneakers.
Unfortunately, after few seconds I cought myself that Church's is Prada...
I know that. But always try to forget or hide from such reality.