The Japanese Bespoke Tailoring Thread

[__k]

@__k, did you end up visiting Sartoria Icoa and Archies? I'd love to hear your impressions of your visits there, even if you didn't end up ordering anything. Even hearing about what fabrics tailors prefer and small details they pay attention to is very interesting to me.

I ended up visiting both last November and placing orders for jackets. Timelines were both 1.5 years so I'll be seeing them again in May for the first fittings. These were my first bespoke orders, so I spent an unreasonable amount of time just flipping through fabrics. Satowa-san and Ishidu-san were both incredibly generous with their time. Their personalities reflected their house styles and it was fun seeing this so clearly, as I visited them on the same day.

Satowa-san/Archies had the range of English fabrics you mentioned above (Lovat, Fox, P&H, H&S, Standeven, ...). He also had a few lengths of fabrics from Hellard, Kuzuri in Nagoya (from the Dominx bunch), many I didn't poke through, as well as some fabric from his time in the UK. He has photos of his space on social media, so I'm not going to bother posting fuzzy pics from my aging phone. He mentioned there were bunches he didn't particularly care for, but I didn't take note of which books were collecting dust. We settled on a single button jacket in H&S moorland tweed (8323023 - the brown glen check with green overcheck in the pic). Also considering a suit in one of the Dominx fabrics depending on how things go..

I also asked him about jeans and he smiled - denim sounds like a hobby he's been pursuing since his teenage years and something he really enjoys. He works with unsanforized denim. Maybe at a future visit. Really fun person to just chat with and spend time.


Ishidu-san/ICOA had a smaller range of fabrics. He mentioned having a wider selection of Italian fabrics, but we spent most of our time in the English bunches. I had mentioned in my email that I was looking for a basic navy jacket in mock leno or mesh and maybe something in a light brown/beige check, so that put us in finmeresco, H&S mesh, and some Fox (no minnis fresco). I ordered a 3r2 jacket in finmeresco SW4143. He had stacks and stacks of navy cloth and I felt a little bad adding to his list of navy and grey orders.

I was also curious about ICOA's MTM but Ishidu-san suggested we revisit when I return in May as he was re-working the pattern and it wouldn't be ready for a couple more months. We settled on the fabric fairly quickly so we just sat and chatted for a good hour. It sounds like he's quite busy right now, and while I saw one person working with Satowa-san at Archies, it seemed like Ishidu-san was a one-man operation (I may be wrong). Ishidu-san cuts a jacket with a lot of rounded soft edges and this makes a lot of sense after spending time with him - soft-spoken but incredibly friendly and welcoming.


Before Ishidu-san opened ICOA a few years back, he was the tailor for a shop called Hirabayashi Yofukuten for close to 10 years. Hirabayashi held trunk shows at places like Strasburgo in Tokyo, and this probably explains why he gets so many customers who gravitate towards the more conservative solid navy and grey orders. Before Hirabayashi, he spent a year in Milan and a couple years with Pirozzi, and this is what's most often cited as his influences. A jacket from the Hirabayashi days for comparison.

 

[__k]

Also, @__k, please tell us how you go with the Ring Jacket Napoli line! For trousers, in the Tokyo area I've been interested in Igarashi Trousers, which does everything from RTW, to MTM and bespoke. Beams stock a few of the RTW models. Their atelier is in Aoyama/Akasaka, so is not far from Shibuya.

I didn't realise that Ring Jacket's MTM prices had increased so much. I understand that a lot of fabrics, especially the expensive Italian fabrics that Ring Jacket favours have increased in price over the last year or so, but a 1.5x price increase makes it a difficult value proposition. It's the reason I went with bespoke in the first place - there is a gap between MTM and bespoke pricing, but Japanese bespoke tailors work extremely hard to keep their prices reasonable.

I've also done MTM with Igarashi Trousers at their Akasaka shop. (Haven't done bespoke.) The cut from the seat through the leg of the trousers from Igarashi was practically identical to my RJ RTW trousers that I've had altered. The only major difference was the rise, with Igarashi (not so surprisingly) being noticeably higher. My legs are a bit unusual so finding trousers that fit correctly is a struggle. I'm still working with both to get it right. Prices online are excluding fabric so expect to pay a fair bit more.

The Akasaka shop is staffed by Nagai-san and Yamakami-san, with Nagai-san being the more customer-facing of the pair. Yamakami-san is often off in the corner working away at something until he hits a stopping point and comes out to chat. In addition to working at Igarashi, Yamakami-san also does bespoke tailoring himself and has a couple pieces to look at or try on at the Akasaka shop. He trained entirely in Japan and is another example of 'not Neapolitan' tailoring in Japan.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

 

[__k]

Would appreciate any honest feedback on the moorland tweed in brown check. The fabric is worsted but I was hopeful that it could still work with mid/dark denim and twill trousers. I ran away from the carded fabrics after flipping through the books because I generally run hot and live in a city that rarely drops below 10C/50F. 14oz+ woolens didn't seem like something I would be reaching for very often. I went in planning on ordering from Lovat Teviot but this felt warming than I was expecting. I vaguely recall looking at a few 11oz woolens, but they weren't particularly appealing. I believe Satowa-san is often pairing a brown worsted flannel with his denim, which probably also made me feel a bit more comfortable with the order.

 

[comrade]

I've also done MTM with Igarashi Trousers at their Akasaka shop. (Haven't done bespoke.) The cut from the seat through the leg of the trousers from Igarashi was practically identical to my RJ RTW trousers that I've had altered. The only major difference was the rise, with Igarashi (not so surprisingly) being noticeably higher. My legs are a bit unusual so finding trousers that fit correctly is a struggle. I'm still working with both to get it right. Prices online are excluding fabric so expect to pay a fair bit more.

The Akasaka shop is staffed by Nagai-san and Yamakami-san, with Nagai-san being the more customer-facing of the pair. Yamakami-san is often off in the corner working away at something until he hits a stopping point and comes out to chat. In addition to working at Igarashi, Yamakami-san also does bespoke tailoring himself and has a couple pieces to look at or try on at the Akasaka shop. He trained entirely in Japan and is another example of 'not Neapolitan' tailoring in Japan.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

I've also done MTM with Igarashi Trousers at their Akasaka shop. (Haven't done bespoke.) The cut from the seat through the leg of the trousers from Igarashi was practically identical to my RJ RTW trousers that I've had altered. The only major difference was the rise, with Igarashi (not so surprisingly) being noticeably higher. My legs are a bit unusual so finding trousers that fit correctly is a struggle. I'm still working with both to get it right. Prices online are excluding fabric so expect to pay a fair bit more.

The Akasaka shop is staffed by Nagai-san and Yamakami-san, with Nagai-san being the more customer-facing of the pair. Yamakami-san is often off in the corner working away at something until he hits a stopping point and comes out to chat. In addition to working at Igarashi, Yamakami-san also does bespoke tailoring himself and has a couple pieces to look at or try on at the Akasaka shop. He trained entirely in Japan and is another example of 'not Neapolitan' tailoring in Japan.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

That jacket (suit coat)is perfect.

 

[Destination_Arubin]

Late to the party, but I have a couple of Cockney Tailor (of Azabu) suits and a collection of Ichibankan Ginza suits. Is there a general consensus towards these makers? I enjoy wearing them and they do a good job balancing out my rather small shoulders and slightly larger head.

I haven't heard of Cockney Tailor, but Ichibankan is famous. I haven't had any experience with either. Ichibankan has provided suits for past prime ministers and Vick Tailor, a Tokyo bespoke tailor previously trained there.

You should post pictures of your suits! Would be a good reference for anyone considering that kind of MTM structured style.

I did a quick search on Ichibankan, and the feedback is good. It seems like they attach the jacket collars, and do the buttonholes by hand if you care about that sort of thing. The link I posted has a list of other highly-rated MTM Japanese tailors on the left hand side. But if you like the suits and the fit works for you, then that's all that matters!

 

[Destination_Arubin]

I ended up visiting both last November and placing orders for jackets. Timelines were both 1.5 years so I'll be seeing them again in May for the first fittings. These were my first bespoke orders, so I spent an unreasonable amount of time just flipping through fabrics. Satowa-san and Ishidu-san were both incredibly generous with their time. Their personalities reflected their house styles and it was fun seeing this so clearly, as I visited them on the same day.

Satowa-san/Archies had the range of English fabrics you mentioned above (Lovat, Fox, P&H, H&S, Standeven, ...). He also had a few lengths of fabrics from Hellard, Kuzuri in Nagoya (from the Dominx bunch), many I didn't poke through, as well as some fabric from his time in the UK. He has photos of his space on social media, so I'm not going to bother posting fuzzy pics from my aging phone. He mentioned there were bunches he didn't particularly care for, but I didn't take note of which books were collecting dust. We settled on a single button jacket in H&S moorland tweed (8323023 - the brown glen check with green overcheck in the pic). Also considering a suit in one of the Dominx fabrics depending on how things go..
View attachment 2114707

I also asked him about jeans and he smiled - denim sounds like a hobby he's been pursuing since his teenage years and something he really enjoys. He works with unsanforized denim. Maybe at a future visit. Really fun person to just chat with and spend time.


Ishidu-san/ICOA had a smaller range of fabrics. He mentioned having a wider selection of Italian fabrics, but we spent most of our time in the English bunches. I had mentioned in my email that I was looking for a basic navy jacket in mock leno or mesh and maybe something in a light brown/beige check, so that put us in finmeresco, H&S mesh, and some Fox (no minnis fresco). I ordered a 3r2 jacket in finmeresco SW4143. He had stacks and stacks of navy cloth and I felt a little bad adding to his list of navy and grey orders.

I was also curious about ICOA's MTM but Ishidu-san suggested we revisit when I return in May as he was re-working the pattern and it wouldn't be ready for a couple more months. We settled on the fabric fairly quickly so we just sat and chatted for a good hour. It sounds like he's quite busy right now, and while I saw one person working with Satowa-san at Archies, it seemed like Ishidu-san was a one-man operation (I may be wrong). Ishidu-san cuts a jacket with a lot of rounded soft edges and this makes a lot of sense after spending time with him - soft-spoken but incredibly friendly and welcoming.


Before Ishidu-san opened ICOA a few years back, he was the tailor for a shop called Hirabayashi Yofukuten for close to 10 years. Hirabayashi held trunk shows at places like Strasburgo in Tokyo, and this probably explains why he gets so many customers who gravitate towards the more conservative solid navy and grey orders. Before Hirabayashi, he spent a year in Milan and a couple years with Pirozzi, and this is what's most often cited as his influences. A jacket from the Hirabayashi days for comparison.

I totally get it! I remember feeling completely overwhelmed by fabrics the first time I ordered bespoke too. You can only get a limited idea from online photos and e-mails, and you also need to be careful of the lighting conditions of the room itself when you view physical samples. Not to mention what jacket/suit details you’d style the fabrics with, and the clothes you’d pair with the garment.

I have not heard about the mill Kuzuri in Nagoya, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot online, so I’d definitely like to learn more.

Bespoke denim is not a bridge I’m ready to cross! But I get the appeal – the perfect pair of jeans is just something that you could wear every day for years and not get tired of. I’ve been looking for a washed pair of jeans, and I always end up looking at 45R. Prices are steep and I’m not sure the fit works for everyone (rise is a touch too shallow for tailoring I think), but the washes, fabric and details are always just incredible.

Your choice of a navy mock leno jacket from Ishidu-san is really really good. I think my favourite mock lenos are from the Finmeresco and Dugdale Tropicalair bunches. Love the texture. In fact, if I could only have just one jacket, I think the jacket you chose would be a strong candidate.

That’s a great introduction to those two tailors! Can’t wait to see how those orders turn out!

 

[Destination_Arubin]

I've also done MTM with Igarashi Trousers at their Akasaka shop. (Haven't done bespoke.) The cut from the seat through the leg of the trousers from Igarashi was practically identical to my RJ RTW trousers that I've had altered. The only major difference was the rise, with Igarashi (not so surprisingly) being noticeably higher. My legs are a bit unusual so finding trousers that fit correctly is a struggle. I'm still working with both to get it right. Prices online are excluding fabric so expect to pay a fair bit more.

The Akasaka shop is staffed by Nagai-san and Yamakami-san, with Nagai-san being the more customer-facing of the pair. Yamakami-san is often off in the corner working away at something until he hits a stopping point and comes out to chat. In addition to working at Igarashi, Yamakami-san also does bespoke tailoring himself and has a couple pieces to look at or try on at the Akasaka shop. He trained entirely in Japan and is another example of 'not Neapolitan' tailoring in Japan.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.

www.instagram.com

Ah I see, then the fit through the seat and leg would be quite slim, and end with quite a sharp taper. I remember Yukio Akamine on a Youtube video once commenting that he would go no slimmer than a 22cm pant hem width. Having tried it I quite like it too, and would definitely not go any slimmer than 20cm.

Really great to hear about your experience at Igarashi Trousers. Didn’t know the MTM prices online excluded fabric – that will add a bit more to the price.

 

[Crispyj]

Kuzuri is the pinnacle of Japanese menswear fabric. Corcos is making a suit for me with Kuzuri cloth. I do not know the reference code though.

 

[Destination_Arubin]

Would appreciate any honest feedback on the moorland tweed in brown check. The fabric is worsted but I was hopeful that it could still work with mid/dark denim and twill trousers. I ran away from the carded fabrics after flipping through the books because I generally run hot and live in a city that rarely drops below 10C/50F. 14oz+ woolens didn't seem like something I would be reaching for very often. I went in planning on ordering from Lovat Teviot but this felt warming than I was expecting. I vaguely recall looking at a few 11oz woolens, but they weren't particularly appealing. I believe Satowa-san is often pairing a brown worsted flannel with his denim, which probably also made me feel a bit more comfortable with the order.

I mostly dress very practically, and in your climate yes I think you'd have limited use for a heavy tweed. I prefer tweeds for the visual texture and depth of colour, but I wouldn't select it if it wasn't practical. I like worsted tweeds (I have one myself), and with an overcoat on top, can wear it almost all year.

But for styling I've had to think about how I wear it. It works with some things better than others, and can be a bit specific at times.

Worsted tweeds dress down fine I think. I often wear mine with chambray and oxford shirts without a tie, and jeans. I was worried the texture of the fabric would be too smooth, but it doesn't bother me so much. Things like colour and pattern have more of an effect to me. Dark brown for me doesn't work in warmer weather in any fabric. The colour feels wintery to me.

Another thing I notice about worsted tweeds in glen plaid / POW patterns, is that those can't always be seen easily from a distance. Especially if the scale of the pattern is small. At a distance the check can resolve to the base colour of the fabric.

From what I can see I think your selection is nice, but the finish and pattern might take getting used to as it's different from a traditional tweed.

 

[__k]

I have not heard about the mill Kuzuri in Nagoya, and there doesn’t seem to be a whole lot online, so I’d definitely like to learn more.

I don't have much to add. They're well known for still using shuttle looms that they acquired almost 100 years ago. Their web presence is fairly non-existent. Fair number of write-ups but no actual webpage (that I can find). Just an instagram account that occasionally updates with notices on availability and a note to send them an email if you would like to place on order.

I naively thought I would be able to find better photos online using the IDs but no such luck.

Nice short interview with Kuzuya-san from Kuzuri.


On a lighter note, please buy more Kuzuri fabric. They are in dire need of our support..

Traditional fabric industry pins revitalization hopes on Lolita fashions in Japan

ICHINOMIYA, Aichi — A traditional textile industry has been getting a head-turning new makeover in Ichinomiya, a leading producer of woolen fabrics in Japan. Since last year, designers and local businesses have been collaborating to create gothic Lolita-fashions from Bishu wool, a fabric that...

japannews.yomiuri.co.jp

 

[daizawaguy]

Quick update - Cockney has been closed now for about close to 10 years - the owner sadly had health issues I believe. I would recommend Takahashi Ginza - the tailor trained in the UK (the owner), though now he has various tailors working for him - the work is superb. Kuzuri Keori is indeed one of the finest millers of cloth, and their mills still use old machines from the post war period. I would also not overlook MTM - and here F One measures you up and this goes into a computer and the suit is made in Tottori prefecture at one of the best factories in Japan - if you chose Cupla lining and real horn buttons as well as real button holes you get a very fine suit indeed for under Yen100k with Kuzuri wool

Here is an old thread I made...

Japanese suits thread

I`ve posted a few threads on Azabu tailor and Cockney Tailor, but thought I`d start a new thread on Japanese suits. There is very little on the net on Japanese suits, so this should be of benefit to everyone interested in this subject. The Japanese suit market is huge, with hundreds of...

www.styleforum.net

 

[bauhaus82]

I'll take more photos soon of my Ginza Ichibankan suits, in the meantime this is my Cockney Tailor (labelled Whistle from Cockney) of Nishiazabu. It has a Zegna cloth made from Linen, Cotton, and Silk.

 

[daizawaguy]

Superb suit! I have some lovely jackets and one suit from Cockney - but sadly it has closed - are yours from around 7-10 years ago? Looking forward to seeing Ichibankan. Wonder if anyone has suits from Takahashi Ginza?

 

[bauhaus82]

Superb suit! I have some lovely jackets and one suit from Cockney - but sadly it has closed - are yours from around 7-10 years ago? Looking forward to seeing Ichibankan. Wonder if anyone has suits from Takahashi Ginza?

If I recall correctly it's from 2013/2014, one of the first suits I got when I decided to get into sartorial style. On another note, here's one of 5 Ichibankan suits that I happen to be wearing now, excuse the lack of a full body shot.

Dormeuil Amadeus fabric, tailored by Ichibankan Tailor Ginza. 4x1 DB configuration. A very, very, dark navy that's almost black, with Indigo/Purple stripes.

 

[bauhaus82]

2nd Ichibankan Tailor Ginza Suit, made in 2014. 4x1 DB suit, High-Twist wool fabric.