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The Tailors' Thread: Fit Feedback and Alteration Suggestions

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by emptym, Sep 14, 2011.

  1. ultramantaro

    ultramantaro Senior member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2012
    For a MTM shirt they really did a poor job and look almost one size too big. One would think the sleeve length should be proper at the very least.

    It looks like they they need to open the sides, remove excess fabric at the chest area to slim down the chest portion, along with cutting off excess fabric on the sleeve, and shorten the sleeve length.
     
  2. d4nimal

    d4nimal Senior member

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Hello all - I went for a trial fitting at the KW pop up in hopes of having a tuxedo made for my wedding this September. Afterwards I went to Barneys and tried on a 38R RL black label single button peak lapel for comparison.


    I put the pics taken at the shop with a KW 38R and unhemmed 32W pants next to a RL black label tux jacket (not pants) I tried on later the same day (the KW is on the Left in each pic, and the last picture is the RL Black Label on its own at Barneys. I am close to 6 foot even, ~150 lbs. I also tend to gravitate towards stronger more built up shoulders such as the RL BL vs the standard or soft.


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    Here are the suggestions from Aaron who runs the pop up:

    Base jacket 38

    Shoulder width +1cm
    Buttoning point ok
    Sleeve length + 2 cm
    Bicep -1 cm
    Lower arm no change
    Sleeve pitch backward
    Armhole + 1 cm (meaning 1 cm up and therefore narrower)
    Back chest (armpit to armpit) -1 cm
    Front chest no change
    Waist + 0.5 cm
    Jacket length +2.5 cm


    - My instinct is to lower the buttoning point ~1.5-2 cm to form a deeper V like the RL and actually either keep the waist the same or suppress it even further instead of letting it out- I feel like the RLBL showed I have room to take in without pulling or being uncomfortable. I'm getting a no vented tux which should help with the slim silhouette for what that's worth.

    - I'm also not used to having a jacket length that would be a full inch lower than the picture shows, but that may just be a product of being brought up in the modern culture of "bumfreezers."

    - I was advised in a different thread to consider a swayback adjustment if possible as well. I do slouch and stand with my right shoulder a bit lower but I don't plan on slouching much on the day of the wedding

    I would love any advice you would be able to lend me from any of those respects or otherwise. I find it hard to judge the pants as they were unhemmed but the suggestion was to let the seat out a touch.

    Cheers - and thanks much for any constructive advice.
     
  3. ATLjon

    ATLjon Senior member

    Messages:
    2,034
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Location:
    ATL

    UPDATE:


    I still think there are some things to be worked on after this latest fit, and I'm a bit annoyed that the process has taken this long, but I feel like we're getting there.

    Despos and others: Is there a point to which there have been too many alterations to an off-the-rack suit? Should I start getting worried about the durability of things?


    I still think they could do more with the crotch area, as I feel there's a bit of extra fabric there making the pants look a bit saggy. They also shortened the length as they raised the waistband, so I need them to add a bit more length back on. I think there's a bit too much room in the jacket where the lapels are. Is there an easy fix for that?

    What else am I missing here?

    After this process, I don't know if I'd buy another Sid suit.



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    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  4. irock7777

    irock7777 Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    [​IMG]
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    My first Kent Wang MTM suit. Getting ready for another in a few weeks

    Ignore the pants. Im going to start over with those.

    How does the jacket look to you guys? I forgot to button my sleeves in this pic so thats why they look a touch sloppy. I was thinking of taking .5cm off either the bicep or the arm hole. I also notice a little pulling in the vent. Its more prevalent in the pic than in real life. I think i had it altered a little tight in that area. Other suggestions?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  5. Flyswatter

    Flyswatter Senior member

    Messages:
    1,108
    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    
    I'd suggest going with the soft shoulder option on your next KW suit.
     
  6. irock7777

    irock7777 Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    I was actually going to go with unpadded on this next one. May i ask what made you make this suggestion? Also would you still go with soft vs unpadded?
     
  7. Flyswatter

    Flyswatter Senior member

    Messages:
    1,108
    Joined:
    May 4, 2011
    

    From the pics you posted of your current suit, the shoulders look very boxy and squared. Are those standard, or roped? They don't look bad per se (and in fact I think they go well with the peak lapels), but I think softer shoulders would be more flattering on you. I selected soft shoulders on one of my KW suits and preferred it over standard, but I have no experience with the unpadded option, so I can't really comment on that. But I will say that in theory, a "business" suit should have at least some structure to the shoulders in my opinion. Unpadded is probably best left to more casual, summery jackets, such as linen.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  8. irock7777

    irock7777 Active Member

    Messages:
    42
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Excellent. Thanks for the advice. This is the ropped shoulder. I will go with the soft shoulder for the next one
     
  9. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

    Messages:
    12,296
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Location:
    Home
    How difficult is it to let out the upper sleeves (bicep) area? A gray coat of mine is a bit tight in the upper sleeve with a shirt and cardigan on. I can bend my elbow but it gets really tight.

    Should this job cause worry for the garment, or should be a simple job? The coat is fully lined, and the outer seam is visible from the inside arm.

    And if I do let out the upper sleeves, should I be concerned about the entire sleeve proportions? Proportion to shoulders?
     
  10. Rory Duffy

    Rory Duffy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY
    Its a complex alteration if there is inlay to let out.
    The sleeve will need to be removed from the armhole and then reset. If there is no inlay the most you could squeeze out is 3/8 (depending on the weave). It will create more fullness in the sleeve when reset into the armhole, which can be hidden in the under sleeve if you want to avoid less crown. Would advise you mark the sleeve pitch with chalk or a hand-stitch to be sure the tailor sets in back in at the correct position. If you let out the sleeve the lining must be altered to match.
    Any alteration regarding sleeves should be done by a reputable tailor, you might want to try Beyond Bespoke. Had dealing with them a few years back when consulting for a MTM company, costs more than your local dry cleaners but for an alt like than going for the guy with the lowest rate wouldn't be the best option.
    This won't effect the shoulders, just the armhole itself.
     
  11. gettoasty

    gettoasty Senior member

    Messages:
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    Sounds like a headache

    I only got a few wears out of it, too. This is an unfortunate situation. Coats are expensive

    Thank you, @Rory Duffy for your input.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2014
  12. Rory Duffy

    Rory Duffy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY
    Believe me, it's a bigger one for your tailor.
    You gotta stop plumping those guns, your sleeves will fit better.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

    Messages:
    3,580
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2011
    Location:
    Ontario
    @Rory Duffy , can I just say that it's great to see you on the site - I loved the Making of a Coat videos.
     
  14. d4nimal

    d4nimal Senior member

    Messages:
    103
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Quote:

    Buttoning point ok
    Sleeve length + 2 cm
    Bicep -1 cm
    Lower arm no change
    Sleeve pitch backward
    Armhole + 1 cm (meaning 1 cm up and therefore narrower)
    Back chest (armpit to armpit) -1 cm
    Front chest no change
    Waist + 0.5 cm
    Jacket length +2.5 cm


    - My instinct is to lower the buttoning point ~1.5-2 cm to form a deeper V like the RL and actually either keep the waist the same or suppress it even further instead of letting it out- I feel like the RLBL showed I have room to take in without pulling or being uncomfortable. I'm getting a no vented tux which should help with the slim silhouette for what that's worth.

    - I'm also not used to having a jacket length that would be a full inch lower than the picture shows, but that may just be a product of being brought up in the modern culture of "bumfreezers."

    - I was advised in a different thread to consider a swayback adjustment if possible as well. I do slouch and stand with my right shoulder a bit lower but I don't plan on slouching much on the day of the wedding

    I would love any advice you would be able to lend me from any of those respects or otherwise. I find it hard to judge the pants as they were unhemmed but the suggestion was to let the seat out a touch.

    Cheers - and thanks much for any constructive advice.


    Bumping my post so it doesn't get quietly buried. Any input from you guys you'd be able to lend me?
     
  15. Alexander Scriabin

    Alexander Scriabin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    97
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Location:
    Australia
    

    Sorry to bump my own post but it seems that I originally posted during a flurry of activity and it go rather swamped.

    Would really appreciate any advice.

    Cheers
     
  16. OTCtailor

    OTCtailor Senior member

    Messages:
    530
    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Location:
    Lehigh Valley, PA
    I am just marveling at how many alterations had to be done to this suit for a guy who "doesn't need many alterations". Unreal.
     
  17. Rory Duffy

    Rory Duffy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    53
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2013
    Location:
    Williamsburg, Brooklyn, NY
    Dear Alexander,

    Saw your post earlier today and am only now finding the time to reply. I checked out Kent Wangs site to see what sort of service he provides, from the site is seems you can pay anywhere from $720 - $1300. A fair price and considering your figure it's hard for me as a bespoke tailor to critise MTM fit at this price point. Its not just how we make it, its the attention to fit. As you say you are head forward but also sway back (hips rotated forward) extremely sloped shoulders and promenient shoulder blades, which is causing the issues.
    To alter this suits it's needs to be taken apart, sleeves out, collar off and back removed.
    We'll take this one issue at a time.

    Tightness at the shoulder points.
    We have similar body types, due to your head forward your shoulder bones are rotated forward which pushes on the front of armhole. To elevate this issue one needs to stretch the canvas at this point after the sleeves have been removed, not necessary to stretch the cloth unless it's over 12oz, which I doubt.

    The collar stand seems high, but forgivable, they may have extend the collar stand over 1 1/4" to ensure it sits up on the neck due to the head forward. Personal I would only do this alt on extremely high shoulders to stop the collar from dipping here, not necessary in your case.

    The shoulder width is fine, as I said, the tightness on the front is due to your points pushing on the armhole not the shoulder width. The wrinks along the shoulder seam is due to insufficient fullness in the back shoulder seam. On MTM this can't be rectified, as there is usually no inlay here, unless you narrow the front shoulder 1/4" and place that extra length into the first 2/3 of the shoulder seam from the neck point.

    As we can clearly see you shoulder blades in each image the cloth need to be stretch here to allow for that, not commonly done in MTM.

    The opening of the back vents, the fact that the back seams sits out from the body, the hem on the back seeming to buckle off centre and the drags at either side of the back armholes all point to a short back balance. The back balance of a coat (jacket) is the distance from the nape of the neck on the back to the scye line aka chest line aka depth of armhole. On a head forward figure it needs to be longer to accommodate the extra length of the spine.

    If we where to place a rod perpendicular to your spine we would probably find that the measurement from that rod to your nape (seventh vertebrae/ bone at the base of the collar) is about 3 1/2" the average figure is 2 - 2 1/4 that leaves a difference of 3/4". I would take an educated guess that that's the amount of cloth that is lacking in the back balance.

    A trick I use during my fittings is to lift the coat off the neck and shoulders shuffling it back so the centre back seam sits in against the spine and the vent closes. Then measure from the top of the collar to the optimum position of were you would like the collar to sit, that's the amount of length required.

    Even when the back balance is corrected the would still be excess cloth at the back armhole. This is due in part to the promenient blades and the shape of your back. With head forwards like you and me there is little tissue to support the cloth back there. There is only so much you can pick up the shoulder points, increasing the angle before you start creating a pleat across the back shoulders (squaring issue).

    What I would recommend are wing pads. These are tailor made shoulder pads with a longer wing which would take up the excess space at the back of the armhole. Drawing the back armhole seam would also help to pull the cloth in back here, again this is not usually done on MTM but comes as standard in Bespoke.

    If you manage to convenience someone to do all these alts as stated, in this very long and drawn out fitting assessment have them hollow out he run of the under sleeve seam and clean up the back sleeve drape.


    To achieve the fit you want/ expect MTM is not for you given your body type. There is only so much that can be achieved through the made to measure system. Every body differs that's why there is always the bespoke option.

    As a plug to a former Master of mine Joesph Martin, third generation Master Tailor, for about $2500 you can have a bespoke suit Handcrafted in Ireland that fits better than this does. Maybe outside of your budget but well worth the extra expense.

    Check out jmartintailors.ie

    Hope this answers your question
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Terpo

    Terpo Senior member

    Messages:
    269
    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2013
    Location:
    Europe
    Thank you all - Despos especially - for your valuable input regarding my fits. Really appreciate it!

    I recently received a blazer by SuitSupply MTM and was wondering, whether you could give me any feedback on alterations that might need to be done. Thanks!

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    Special area of concern is the fit of the collar, which seems to always be a problem with my jackets. SuitSupply said they adjusted for my sloping shoulders, but apparently not enough.
     
  19. dohare

    dohare Senior member

    Messages:
    195
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    SS made a 3 button? wow

    either way, im not tailor, but the fit looks really good. a little noise in the lower back and some shortening of your left sleeve, but other then that nothing.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2014
  20. plainnerd

    plainnerd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    60
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    I bought this cheap herringbone suit wanted a quick opinion on it before I got any work done. The jacket looks large (though slightly short), but the shoulders feel pretty good so I think I can make it work. The pants are a bit loose and flare at the bottom so I was going to remove the cuffs and taper them. Any opinions? or should I just toss the whole thing on ebay?


    sorry about the bare feet here.
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