**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

[Stemo79]



^Not good at all, really...

As for the pinnacle of stupidity, how on Earth would you get a bespoke shoe in a style that wouldnt be to your taste?

I will try this one last time: You are worse off in terms of fit by choosing RTW over Bespoke. There may be a number of other reasons that RTW is a better choice for you than Bespoke, inclusive of price, delivery time, etc. Fit is not reason to choose RTW over Bespoke. 

Because the particular bespoke artisan may not have the particular materials I want or a hundred other reasons, just because they make shoes doesn't mean they can make a shoe to my specifications.

I feel you're being a little childish now, you're also cherry picking the discussion.

Just because something may be better does not imply what you already have is bad. For example, if I want a steak and fillet is my preferred cut yet I can only get sirloin but it's really nice and I enjoy it then I'm not worse off... Maybe you're just a glass half empty type of guy though?

I will try this one last time, bespoke is not an option for everybody so telling people that rtw shoes will fit badly without offering any advice to help and babbling on and on about how great bespoke shoes are is not constructive in fact it's pretty arrogant and rude, no amount of idealistic and pointless theoretical situations will counter that.

FYI a flat head screwdriver doesn't cost quadruple the price of a Philips.

 

[Munky]

I am happy with my RTW shoes. I can't afford bespoke.

 

[Stemo79]



I am happy with my RTW shoes. I can't afford bespoke. 

And that is all that matters and counts!

 

[bdavro23]

Because the particular bespoke artisan may not have the particular materials I want or a hundred other reasons, just because they make shoes doesn't mean they can make a shoe to my specifications.

This is just silly. As for cherry picking the discussion, I have made one, consistent argument the whole time: All things being equal, a good bespoke shoe will fit better than RTW. Thats it. Price, availability and other criteria may mean RTW is a better option. I dont know why you have such trouble with reading comprehension.

Just because something may be better does not imply what you already have is bad. For example, if I want a steak and fillet is my preferred cut yet I can only get sirloin but it's really nice and I enjoy it then I'm not worse off... Maybe you're just a glass half empty type of guy though?

I never said RTW shoes fit badly. Not once. Please pay attention to what I write as I have been very specific. I am not being arrogant, and I would counter that it is you who has been rude in this interaction.

FYI a flat head screwdriver doesn't cost quadruple the price of a Philips.

Once again, you are not paying attention. The only argument that is being made is that good bespoke will provide better fit than RTW. If you are unwilling or unable to pay the price of bespoke, then you are compromising fit for the sake of money. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The difference in fit may be miniscule, it may be large, but it is a difference all the same.

I am happy with my RTW shoes. I can't afford bespoke.

I too am happy with my RTW shoes. They represent very good value and compromise to me between price and quality.

 

[Stemo79]



I too am happy with my RTW shoes. They represent very good value and compromise to me between price and quality.

So now it's good bespoke as oppose to bespoke? Yet another complication.

The argument you may be making is that bespoke fits better than rtw but that was not was being implied earlier before you responded to my post. Just because you decided to wade into an ongoing topic isn't my problem.

The fact of the matter is that I don't care whether bespoke may or may not fit better, I actually have no desire to own a pair because I am totally happy with what I have. What I object to is seeing someone ask for fitting advice and get obtuse unhelpful answers.

If as you say rtw don't fit badly then there's absolutely no need to carry this stupid argument any further because quite frankly I'm getting bored with it.

 

[Zapasman]

I am very happy with my GYW rtw shoes, but I am even happier with my Hand Made shoes. I am sure I will be even happier with a pair of Bespoke too!!.

This is very simple, fellows.

 

[wengxiah]

No. Hell no. Theoretically, you are right, but in practice you are wrong.

Have you visited the bespoke shoe thread? There are unworn pairs by top makers because they don't fit, and there are fugly poorly made pairs by unknown makers that fits like a bag.

Bespoke is a process, not a destination. Fit will improve over time but will be off initially, thus trial fittings/shoes and the continuous feedback after the shoes are delivered.

No, bespoke shoes doesn't always fit better than RTW. Neither does bespoke suits always fit better than RTW. Makers play a huge factor as well as their service and how tolerant (or intolerant) the customers are.

what should one do if that happens? Is it commonly reasonable for the bespoke maker to remake one free of charge or, the buy just has to accept his bad luck?

 

[chogall]

what should one do if that happens? Is it commonly reasonable for the bespoke maker to remake one free of charge or, the buy just has to accept his bad luck?

Deal with your bespoke maker when the problem arises.

 

[jerrybrowne]



Deal with your bespoke maker when the problem arises.

+1. If the fit is really off, more often than not they will remake the shoe. Sometimes they make "adjustments".

 

[eljimberino]

RTW is bespoke for someone, no?

 

[chogall]



RTW is bespoke for someone, no?

Bespoke is RTW for everyone else as the fit will be off. RTW for everyone is not bespoke for someone, until most of the fit issues/compromises have been resolved by a cobbler.

 

[eljimberino]

Yes but the RTW last is based on someone's bespoke measurements.

 

[Nick V.]



+1. If the fit is really off, more often than not they will remake the shoe. Sometimes they make "adjustments".

Yup.....A bespoke maker from Portugal stopped in today. We spoke about some of the later issues discussed in this thread. Many times the "adjustments" amount to nothing more than stretching. Remember, he has to stay in business. Given that, if you shell out the bucks for bespoke and he stretched your shoes in the "hot spot" areas to get them to be tolerable comfort wise, did you really get your moneys worth? Further, does he really have the correct (your personal last) for you? If he sees you as a one-off chances are that he won't take the shoe apart to adjust. Rather he'll try to tweak what he already put his time and money in to. You can get that sort of adjustment out of any RTW shoe. On the other hand, I suspect, if the bespoke maker senses that if he gets the initial pair correct you will order several pair then it's worth his time and money to keep making dummies and ripping shoes apart in order to get the right fit. He knows, eventually when he gets as close as possible to a perfect fit He can run with future orders. That's when he can make a profit bc he can run on your true last. He should save that and only use it for you. A true bespoke maker should be able to show you a room of Bespoke lasts that they have made for each of their clients labeled for each. Otherwise they are simply adjusted lasts.

Case in point, my brother owns a company that he started 40 years ago and does orthotics and prosthetics. He owns a building and is very successful. He also has a passion for what he does and helping his patients. He doe's lot's of volunteer work. If you go into his lab you will find every cast from each patient labeled. Throughout the years those casts had to be adjusted. I consider them to be Bespoke from a certain prospective. But, you can see 100's of them in his shop. Any bespoke shoe maker should be able to show 100's of lasts for there clients. Otherwise you are only paying for a hand-made shoe. The other part I could never get is this:
Most bespoke makers tell you that they won't give you there lasts......
WHAT? you paid for them!!!!
If you go bespoke Absolutely INSIST on getting your last back. They charged you for it. It's your property.

There's more.....

 

[clee1982]

Is it? Or it's on no one's bespoke measurements. Ie the average of a population is no one in the population...

 

[chogall]

Yup.....A bespoke maker from Portugal stopped in today. We spoke about some of the later issues discussed in this thread. Many times the "adjustments" amount to nothing more than stretching. Remember, he has to stay in business. Given that, if you shell out the bucks for bespoke and he stretched your shoes in the "hot spot" areas to get them to be tolerable comfort wise, did you really get your moneys worth? Further, does he really have the correct (your personal last) for you? If he sees you as a one-off chances are that he won't take the shoe apart to adjust. Rather he'll try to tweak what he already put his time and money in to. You can get that sort of adjustment out of any RTW shoe. On the other hand, I suspect, if the bespoke maker senses that if he gets the initial pair correct you will order several pair then it's worth his time and money to keep making dummies and ripping shoes apart in order to get the right fit. He knows, eventually when he gets as close as possible to a perfect fit He can run with future orders. That's when he can make a profit bc he can run on your true last. He should save that and only use it for you. A true bespoke maker should be able to show you a room of Bespoke lasts that they have made for each of their clients labeled for each. Otherwise they are simply adjusted lasts.

Case in point, my brother owns a company that he started 40 years ago and does orthotics and prosthetics. He owns a building and is very successful. He also has a passion for what he does and helping his patients. He doe's lot's of volunteer work. If you go into his lab you will find every cast from each patient labeled. Throughout the years those casts had to be adjusted. I consider them to be Bespoke from a certain prospective. But, you can see 100's of them in his shop. Any bespoke shoe maker should be able to show 100's of lasts for there clients. Otherwise you are only paying for a hand-made shoe. The other part I could never get is this:
Most bespoke makers tell you that they won't give you there lasts......
WHAT? you paid for them!!!!
If you go bespoke Absolutely INSIST on getting your last back. They charged you for it. It's your property.

There's more.....

Shrinking, stretching, re-lasting, or anything that could be done to avoid remaking the shoes...

I don't think its usual for bespoke customers to take lasts/patterns as part of the delivery specified on the order sheet, but maybe it could be arranged with some of the makers for a price.