Steed vs Anderson & Sheppard

[worldrunner]

I have decided to take the plunge. In a couple of months I will engage with a master tailor for my first bespoke. After reviewing countless reviews and SF, reading my collection of books on tailoring, and West Coast location, I have come down to Anderson and Sheppard and Steed. Although I believe a house cut by an Italian Artisan of the likes of L&L or Rubinacci may better compliment my frame, they dont travel to my neck of the woods for their road shows.

There are many great things about Anderson & Sheppard and other nice things about Steed. Other than history, what justifies the price difference between Steed Bespoke and A&S Bespoke? I won't be visiting their shops in England but engaging on one of their road shows so I miss out on the Saville Row experience and hopefully that is not the other reason for mark up. I believe A&S bespoke suit pricing starts at ~4,800 GBP (https://www.permanentstyle.com/2018/06/anderson-sheppard-two-button-jacket-style-breakdown.html) and Steed at ~3500 GBP (https://steed.co.uk/london-lounge-promotion/)

Imho, Simon looks fantastic in his blue jacket from A&S pictured below and I believe I have a similar build (6'0 and 180 lb). I was impressed by the ability of Steed to mold to a body in the other attached picture I saw on the IG. After looking at an unhealthy amount of pictures of other people online in their bespoke outfits crafted by each artisan, I believe you can't go wrong. I just have a hard time justifying the price difference between the two unless Steed is cutting steps in the process, which I do not believe to be the case.

Curious on the thoughts of others here.

 

[dieworkwear]

I've used both and think Steed is better. Let's set aside prices because I think that makes the conversation muddy.

The pros for A&S. I think they're more responsive in some directions. You'll get perfectly fine service from Steed on dimensions where it counts, but it can take one or two follow-ups to get things like a reply to an email or get a swatch sent out to you. With A&S, replies happen the next day and swatches are expedited. You also get a much bigger selection of fabric. Their trunk shows take place in a huge room where there are tons and tons of swatch books. Colin also has excellent taste, and can direct you towards good looking fabrics. I'd be lying if I said the firm's history isn't also a plus. It's nice to have something with their label.

The cons for A&S. In my experience, their tailoring isn't that drapey anymore. It's bespoke, so you can certainly ask for more or less drape, but if you say nothing, I find their coats are a little modernized -- slightly cleaner in the chest and just a tad shorter. Even Simon's coats aren't that drapey.

More importantly, I find two things consistently come up in their tailoring. Here are some examples across the years:

The first issue is sleeve pitch. It's hard to see this in the first and last photo (the first photo is of whnay, the last is of Manton, the middle is obviously Simon). On Simon's coat, you can see how the front part of the sleeve shows more cuff than the back. This happened on my coat as well, and while my cutter was very nice, I was a bit disappointed at my final fitting when he suggested the solution was to just let out the sleeve. The issue wasn't that the front of the sleeve is too short, it was that the sleeve itself was pitched slightly forward. You can test this yourself on your own jackets. Just push your arm back a little and view yourself from the side. You'll see your sleeve look like Simon's.

The second issue is that almost all of their jackets run away from the body, such that the angle when viewed from the front forms an A, rather than hanging straight up and down.

It's hard to spot this on Simon's jacket because he's wearing a plain fabric, but it's easy to see on Whnay and Manton (Manton's jacket is the worst of the three). His original jacket is on the left; a Photoshopped version is on the right.

This happens on Simon's coat as well. You can see it if you look closely at the jacket's weave, or see the slant on the pockets and darts. All these things run away from the body, forming an A-line.

I don't know why this consistently comes up, to be honest. As far as I know, they've switched from that old "rock of eye" method and are now cutting from blocks. I don't have a problem with block patterns, but maybe the issue is in their blocks. If it is, I also don't know why it's not caught at fittings. I have my suspicions on what happened, but it's all speculative.

I didn't have the A-frame issue on my coat, but I had sleeve pitch issue. I also just found the coat a bit short and clean for my taste. It looked good with jeans though.

OK, pros and cons for Steed.

Pros for Steed. I think they do great tailoring. You may or may not like their style (sounds like you like it), but IMO it's hard to argue with the quality of their work. In my experience, with very light fabrics, you may find you have to go in for a few more fittings, but I find they're committed to getting things right in the end.

I also like that they'll take things back for readjustment even years after the order was delivered. Some tailors don't do this, and A&S will charge you for alterations post-delivery. With Steed, it's free alterations for life. I've sent things back two or three years after I've received them, and got things back altered at no charge (literally just received a pair of trousers back about a week or two ago).

More than being able to deal with things like weight changes, I find this helps with the bespoke process. Sometimes you don't know how you feel about a garment until you've worn it for a while. The fittings go by quickly and the forward fitting is kind of half made-up, so it's hard to tell what's going on. But with Steed, if you find you don't like something a year later, they can adjust it for you at no charge.

Cons for Steed. I don't know if it's a con, but Steed cuts what they cut. You can get more or less drape, a little shorter or longer jacket. But it's fundamentally a Steed cut, which is drapey. IMO, Voxsartoria's stuff isn't the best representation of their work. For one, he has a very athletic build. Second, I think his stuff is slightly less drapey than what their average customer receives. If you happen to be built like him and want a slightly less drapey coat, then his photos are a good representation. But in my experience, most customers, if they say nothing, will receive something a little closer to this:

Notice the chest is just a little bit fuller than Vox's coats. That's because Vox has more of a V-shaped figure, and adding that much drape might not look so great. But most guys are built closer to Slewfoot, and will receive a coat that looks something like that. IMO, this is closer to the 90s A&S style cut than modern day A&S.

The first time I wore a Steed coat, it felt weird. It felt like it was floating off my body. A friend of mine who has a lot of experience with other bespoke tailors said the same thing. I kept thinking that the coat was too big for me, but then I looked in the mirror and liked how I looked. It just took a little getting used to, but now I find the cut very comfortable -- I just wasn't used to not feeling the coat actually on me. It's hard feeling to describe.

 

[jdp234]

On the pricing differential -- I'd speculate that Steed's overhead costs are lower given the operation is based in Cumbria rather than London. That'd presumably factor into the price even if you set aside the A&S history and name.

 

[JoeBlack0]

The second issue is that almost all of their jackets run away from the body, such that the angle when viewed from the front forms an A, rather than hanging straight up and down.

It's hard to spot this on Simon's jacket because he's wearing a plain fabric, but it's easy to see on Whnay and Manton (Manton's jacket is the worst of the three). His original jacket is on the left; a Photoshopped version is on the right.

View attachment 1181942

This happens on Simon's coat as well. You can see it if you look closely at the jacket's weave, or see the slant on the pockets and darts. All these things run away from the body, forming an A-line.

I don't know why this consistently comes up, to be honest. As far as I know, they've switched from that old "rock of eye" method and are now cutting from blocks. I don't have a problem with block patterns, but maybe the issue is in their blocks. If it is, I also don't know why it's not caught at fittings. I have my suspicions on what happened, but it's all speculative.

I didn't have the A-frame issue on my coat, but I had sleeve pitch issue. I also just found the coat a bit short and clean for my taste. It looked good with jeans though.

Are you saying that you don’t like as much waist supression?I don’t know if I understanded the A thing in the pattern, I mean as far s i know, more waist suppression or shaping through the back and waist tends to look better (if comfortable) right?

 

[circumspice]

Waist suppression should be isolated from the pattern running north-south and the fronts of the jacket not being more parallel to the floor.

 

[nmprisons]

I don’t know if I understanded the A thing in the pattern, I mean as far s i know, more waist suppression or shaping through the back and waist tends to look better (if comfortable) right?

Waist suppression is separate from the A-line issue. Think of it this way: the jacket generally should be perpendicular to the ground. So if you've got a windowpane pattern, the vertical stripes should be perpendicular to the floor and the horizontal ones parallel to it. If you look at the first photo above, the lines that should be perpendicular to the ground are actually angled backward and away from the wearer's bellybutton. The ones that should be parallel to the ground are also angled, this time up and away from the bellybutton. You see the same issue in the second photo with the darts and the pockets. The whole jacket is basically running away from the wearer.

Perhaps .5% of the people who see the coat will notice or care. But once you see it and care, then you can't unsee it. It's the downside of reading these forums.

 

[vida]

Very interesting...great explanations and commentary. I love reading about this stuff.
I am not a bespoke customer and really don’t see it in my future (however, I would life to try it TBH). But it is these types of issues that scare me away from the experience because I cannot fathom spending this amount of money and receiving a product with flaws. And I am not seeking perfection...the pitch issue on Simon’s jacket seems glaring. I had noticed this on his blog but did not understand the problem.

 

[dieworkwear]

One more thing to consider for the OP. If you're located on the West Coast, they visit once a year. Traditionally, A&S wasn't set up as a traveling tailor. Until the 90s, I don't think they even brought fitting garments. They just came, took orders, and went back to London. It was expected that you'd see them in London for your subsequent fittings.

That's still somewhat the case. They visit San Francisco once a year, which means if you don't have any plans to visit London in the near future, you will have to deal with getting your coat three years after ordering (initial meeting, forward fitting, final fitting, and then delivery). The process goes much more smoothly if you make regular trips to London. If you don't, an A&S order is a very good incentive to maintain your weight.

 

[norMD]

I am not a bespoke customer, but if i were in a position to spend that kind of money on a suit i would go an extra mile to buy from my first choice. In other words if you want a liverano suit maybe you should see them in NY. Or consider sarti italiani or solito who travels to SF.

 

[worldrunner]

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies. I think I am leaning Steed here since they visit the West Coast 3x a year and I can walk to their appointments from work.

 

[FlyingHorker]

Surprisingly a lot of the Steed cuts don't look very flattering either. They either look boxy, or emphasize the hips.

@bespokewrinkles is the only one I've seen that looks great in Steed.

So is there only a particular build that looks best in Steed? If so, what one is it?

 

[dieworkwear]

Surprisingly a lot of the Steed cuts don't look very flattering either. They either look boxy, or emphasize the hips.

@bespokewrinkles is the only one I've seen that looks great in Steed.

So is there only a particular build that looks best in Steed? If so, what one is it?

To me, the nice thing about the Steed cut is that it works across a much broader range of body types. It basically sits between the very structured tailoring of Edward Sexton/ Richard Anderson and the uber, soft deconstructed stuff you sometimes see in Southern Italy. It's soft, but it's slightly structured, which means it has its own silhouette. The chest is a bit full, which gives guys a bit more breadth across the shoulders and chest, so a V-shaped figure.

Bespoke Wrinkle's jackets are really nice. I think they're atypical of the Steed style, but it just goes to show that you can modify it a bit around the edges. To me, those jackets look a little less drapey and slightly more rounded in terms of silhouette. I think Slewfoot's is the best example of the baseline Steed cut. @Mr. Six I think also uses them, and the stuff I've seen looks very house style.

The style isn't for everyone, but nothing is going to be. I've seen people describe it as boxy and old fashioned, too long and not sexy or Italian enough. It's true it's none of those things. It's a very traditional, British drape cut. I happen to love it and think it works across a broad range of body types (maybe reign in the drape a little if you have a more athletic figure). But the things I love about it are also, reasonably, the things some people dislike about it.

FWIW, I think if someone orders a Steed sport coat, it's going to be something they can wear for decades to come. Which isn't something I feel about very soft, short, sexy and deconstructed styles I see on the internet. Some of those may look nice today, but I suspect they'll look dated in ten years.

 

[Mr. Six]

I don’t have much to add to Derek’s comments. I’m not in a position to comment on A&S personally, but I agree without a Derek about Steed. If you like the silhouette, you’ll most likely be happy with the results, even if there are some quirks in the customer service end.

But you do have to like the silhouette. FlyingHorker isn’t the first I’ve read saying that it isn’t flattering and emphasizes the hips. I don’t agree, but it isn’t a unique view of his. Just don’t expect to get something that isn’t representative of the majority of what you see from them here and on IG.

I should note that most of my stuff from them is MTM, which I think shares some DNA with their bespoke but is different. I just got a second bespoke suit though and, other than needing a few tweaks, I think it’s fantastic. I have an appointment tomorrow and will be dropping off some tweed for a sport coat.

I’d also note that, although the focus is on the jackets, I’m very impressed with their trousers. They’re really wonderfully cut.

 

[jonathanS]

I've used both and think Steed is better. Let's set aside prices because I think that makes the conversation muddy.

The pros for A&S. I think they're more responsive in some directions. You'll get perfectly fine service from Steed on dimensions where it counts, but it can take one or two follow-ups to get things like a reply to an email or get a swatch sent out to you. With A&S, replies happen the next day and swatches are expedited. You also get a much bigger selection of fabric. Their trunk shows take place in a huge room where there are tons and tons of swatch books. Colin also has excellent taste, and can direct you towards good looking fabrics. I'd be lying if I said the firm's history isn't also a plus. It's nice to have something with their label.

The cons for A&S. In my experience, their tailoring isn't that drapey anymore. It's bespoke, so you can certainly ask for more or less drape, but if you say nothing, I find their coats are a little modernized -- slightly cleaner in the chest and just a tad shorter. Even Simon's coats aren't that drapey.

More importantly, I find two things consistently come up in their tailoring. Here are some examples across the years:

View attachment 1181940 View attachment 1181939 View attachment 1181941 View attachment 1181938


The first issue is sleeve pitch. It's hard to see this in the first and last photo (the first photo is of whnay, the last is of Manton, the middle is obviously Simon). On Simon's coat, you can see how the front part of the sleeve shows more cuff than the back. This happened on my coat as well, and while my cutter was very nice, I was a bit disappointed at my final fitting when he suggested the solution was to just let out the sleeve. The issue wasn't that the front of the sleeve is too short, it was that the sleeve itself was pitched slightly forward. You can test this yourself on your own jackets. Just push your arm back a little and view yourself from the side. You'll see your sleeve look like Simon's.

The second issue is that almost all of their jackets run away from the body, such that the angle when viewed from the front forms an A, rather than hanging straight up and down.

It's hard to spot this on Simon's jacket because he's wearing a plain fabric, but it's easy to see on Whnay and Manton (Manton's jacket is the worst of the three). His original jacket is on the left; a Photoshopped version is on the right.

View attachment 1181942

This happens on Simon's coat as well. You can see it if you look closely at the jacket's weave, or see the slant on the pockets and darts. All these things run away from the body, forming an A-line.

I don't know why this consistently comes up, to be honest. As far as I know, they've switched from that old "rock of eye" method and are now cutting from blocks. I don't have a problem with block patterns, but maybe the issue is in their blocks. If it is, I also don't know why it's not caught at fittings. I have my suspicions on what happened, but it's all speculative.

I didn't have the A-frame issue on my coat, but I had sleeve pitch issue. I also just found the coat a bit short and clean for my taste. It looked good with jeans though.

OK, pros and cons for Steed.

Pros for Steed. I think they do great tailoring. You may or may not like their style (sounds like you like it), but IMO it's hard to argue with the quality of their work. In my experience, with very light fabrics, you may find you have to go in for a few more fittings, but I find they're committed to getting things right in the end.

I also like that they'll take things back for readjustment even years after the order was delivered. Some tailors don't do this, and A&S will charge you for alterations post-delivery. With Steed, it's free alterations for life. I've sent things back two or three years after I've received them, and got things back altered at no charge (literally just received a pair of trousers back about a week or two ago).

More than being able to deal with things like weight changes, I find this helps with the bespoke process. Sometimes you don't know how you feel about a garment until you've worn it for a while. The fittings go by quickly and the forward fitting is kind of half made-up, so it's hard to tell what's going on. But with Steed, if you find you don't like something a year later, they can adjust it for you at no charge.

Cons for Steed. I don't know if it's a con, but Steed cuts what they cut. You can get more or less drape, a little shorter or longer jacket. But it's fundamentally a Steed cut, which is drapey. IMO, Voxsartoria's stuff isn't the best representation of their work. For one, he has a very athletic build. Second, I think his stuff is slightly less drapey than what their average customer receives. If you happen to be built like him and want a slightly less drapey coat, then his photos are a good representation. But in my experience, most customers, if they say nothing, will receive something a little closer to this:

View attachment 1181944

Notice the chest is just a little bit fuller than Vox's coats. That's because Vox has more of a V-shaped figure, and adding that much drape might not look so great. But most guys are built closer to Slewfoot, and will receive a coat that looks something like that. IMO, this is closer to the 90s A&S style cut than modern day A&S.

The first time I wore a Steed coat, it felt weird. It felt like it was floating off my body. A friend of mine who has a lot of experience with other bespoke tailors said the same thing. I kept thinking that the coat was too big for me, but then I looked in the mirror and liked how I looked. It just took a little getting used to, but now I find the cut very comfortable -- I just wasn't used to not feeling the coat actually on me. It's hard feeling to describe.

Good summary. How does Hitchcock factor in this?

 

[greenhouse]

I don’t have much to add to Derek’s comments. I’m not in a position to comment on A&S personally, but I agree without a Derek about Steed. ...

In Derek we trust?