Steed vs Anderson & Sheppard

[Despos]

Although I believe a house cut by an Italian Artisan of the likes of L&L or Rubinacci may better compliment my frame,

This is the most relevant information to consider in your choice; your body type and how harmonious/complimentary the silhouette will be. Derek likes Steed but the inherent features of the drape cut are necessary for his size and agrees with the aesthetic he is after.
The cut should be compatible with your body type and also your personality so the suit will be noticed but you won't be on display of wearing some type of architectural enhancement to embellish your physique.
Visit the east Sicily tailors thread and the tailors that are now visiting the west coast. Look for examples of clients close to your size. Compare the lines/shapes of the lapels, collar, shoulder expression and how the jacket is shaped thru the chest and waist of English and Italian makes. I agree that the Steed on Slewfoot is perhaps the default Steed silhouette. Others are getting what appears to me as Steed with Italian seasoning.
What is it you want to accomplish with this suit? Are you hard to fit or seeking a more comfortable suit? Specific cloth? Maybe you could interview a few tailors before you decide and see who best understands what you are looking for.

 

[Mr. Six]

In Derek we trust?

[Obi-wan voice] Always

 

[dieworkwear]

Steed with Italian seasoning is a great description. I went to a fitting today for a summer sport coat. Some small pattern changes on this order. Straight lapel instead of their default slight belly. Half inch shorter. At the fitting the jacket looked a little like Bespoke Wrinkle's. Maybe a touch Italian influenced. If you like that look I don't think it would be hard to specify the changes.

 

[loarbmhs]

One more thing to consider for the OP. If you're located on the West Coast, they visit once a year. Traditionally, A&S wasn't set up as a traveling tailor. Until the 90s, I don't think they even brought fitting garments. They just came, took orders, and went back to London. It was expected that you'd see them in London for your subsequent fittings.

That's still somewhat the case. They visit San Francisco once a year, which means if you don't have any plans to visit London in the near future, you will have to deal with getting your coat three years after ordering (initial meeting, forward fitting, final fitting, and then delivery). The process goes much more smoothly if you make regular trips to London. If you don't, an A&S order is a very good incentive to maintain your weight.

A&S now visit LA and San Francisco twice a year, so the turnaround time is cut in half. But your original timing of three years was off by one year. You have an initial meeting on Day 1, forward fitting a year later, and final fitting a year after that. That's two years total, not three (okay, final adjustments may take a month, so two years, one month if you want to get technical).

 

[dieworkwear]

A&S now visit LA and San Francisco twice a year, so the turnaround time is cut in half. But your original timing of three years was off by one year. You have an initial meeting on Day 1, forward fitting a year later, and final fitting a year after that. That's two years total, not three (okay, final adjustments may take a month, so two years, one month if you want to get technical).

Whoops, you're right. Two years.

Is the twice a year thing new? As of last year, I only received notice of their usual winter visit.

 

[worldrunner]

I'm so conflicted now. Maybe I have them construct an odd jacket first to see how it turns out and wait for one of my dream tailors for a full suit. I can have Pomella make me some beautiful trousers in the meantime too.

 

[dieworkwear]

I'm so conflicted now. Maybe I have them construct an odd jacket first to see how it turns out and wait for one of my dream tailors for a full suit. I can have Pomella make me some beautiful trousers in the meantime too.

I have doubts that Pomella will come back. They may, but on the last few trips, they didn't see much business here. This is kind of the problem with small tailoring houses visiting here, especially Italian. They don't get as much business as the big firms, which makes it difficult to have long term relationships.

The two Italian companies that currently visit San Francisco are Solito and I Sarti Italiani.

Solito's cut, from what I've seen, similar to Steed, but just slightly softer, shorter, and slimmer. They're not dramatically different, but the Solito cut is noticeably more "Italian." I haven't seen any I Sarti Italiani tailoring in person, so can't comment on that. Some of the Sicilian stuff posted online looks much softer than Solito or Steed, which seems to work for certain body types better than others.

There's a teeny weeny chance that Ciro Zizolfi may visit the Bay Area with Pomella, but this is a far and distant possibility. If happens, the trunk show will be somewhere in Napa Valley. There's a chance it may also not be a full bespoke trunk show, but something like MTM. It's more of the Neapolitan MTM system that has been cropping up -- a bespoke tailor has block patterns, adjusts those patterns to your measurements, and then delivers. Your final fitting would be done locally by another tailor (your alterations person, most likely). The suit is still handcut and made to bespoke standards, but it's not like Brooks MTM or fully bespoke. Kind of a halfway point.

 

[worldrunner]

Your knowledge is incredible.

 

[norMD]

How about tailors keep?
(for a norwegian who has never been to SF i know to much about the options over there. Maybe time to stop reading DWWs blog)

 

[Despos]

Solito's cut, from what I've seen, similar to Steed, but just slightly softer, shorter, and slimmer. They're not dramatically different,

They are very different in cutting, styling, construction. More differences than similarities

 

[comrade]

If I recall correctly, Solito has only been visiting the Bay Area "regularly"
for a year or two.

 

[bry2000]

Has anyone received a finished garment from Solito based solely on Solito’s trips to SF? That is, you did not see him in Italy or any other city he visits on his tailoring tour.

 

[Vuchko]

The first issue is sleeve pitch. It's hard to see this in the first and last photo (the first photo is of whnay, the last is of Manton, the middle is obviously Simon). On Simon's coat, you can see how the front part of the sleeve shows more cuff than the back. This happened on my coat as well, and while my cutter was very nice, I was a bit disappointed at my final fitting when he suggested the solution was to just let out the sleeve. The issue wasn't that the front of the sleeve is too short, it was that the sleeve itself was pitched slightly forward. You can test this yourself on your own jackets. Just push your arm back a little and view yourself from the side. You'll see your sleeve look like Simon's.

The second issue is that almost all of their jackets run away from the body, such that the angle when viewed from the front forms an A, rather than hanging straight up and down.

I don't wish to derail the thread, but looking at your examples, I'd really like to know: are products that have issues like these (particularly the second one) generally considered acceptable in top-class bespoke tailoring?

Maybe I’m fooling myself about how well my own clothes actually fit, but to me it seems that a jacket with such problems would be a disappointing purchase even when it comes to moderately priced RTW. (And this is supposed to be the very pinnacle of elite tailoring, is it not?)

Please don't take this question as an attempt to argue some sort of controversial position. I am very intrigued by the idea of building a high-end custom tailored wardrobe in the future, but I continuously get dissuaded from trying, seeing numerous examples like these on the internet, where people get what seem like disappointing results. So if I'm wrong to get discouraged, what exactly is the counter-argument to these pessimistic observations? (Perhaps the internet exaggerates the frequency of such problems? Or are they more than offset by other advantages unachievable with RTW? Or something else?)

 

[Patrick R]

are products that have issues like these (particularly the second one) generally considered acceptable in top-class bespoke tailoring?

No.

what exactly is the counter-argument to these pessimistic observations?

I have been very happy with my clothes from @Despos. The counter-argument is to find a tailor who makes clothes that meet your approval.

A second counter-argument is they're just clothes. They don't need to be perfect to be enjoyable.

 

[dieworkwear]

I don't wish to derail the thread, but looking at your examples, I'd really like to know: are products that have issues like these (particularly the second one) generally considered acceptable in top-class bespoke tailoring?

Maybe I’m fooling myself about how well my own clothes actually fit, but to me it seems that a jacket with such problems would be a disappointing purchase even when it comes to moderately priced RTW. (And this is supposed to be the very pinnacle of elite tailoring, is it not?)

Please don't take this question as an attempt to argue some sort of controversial position. I am very intrigued by the idea of building a high-end custom tailored wardrobe in the future, but I continuously get dissuaded from trying, seeing numerous examples like these on the internet, where people get what seem like disappointing results. So if I'm wrong to get discouraged, what exactly is the counter-argument to these pessimistic observations? (Perhaps the internet exaggerates the frequency of such problems? Or are they more than offset by other advantages unachievable with RTW? Or something else?)

I don’t know if it’s acceptable, but it’s not uncommon to see issues with bespoke clothes. Some things that I think can help, if you're looking for a good custom tailoring firm:

1. Ask if your cutter will be at your fittings. It’s not uncommon nowadays, even with big firms, to only have a salesperson at your fitting. This isn’t disqualifying, but it raises your chances of getting something good if the actual technical person behind the garment can see what’s going on.

2. Think of things more in terms of cutters than firms. I think online, we talk about things like “this is an A&S garment” or “this is a Rubinacci garment.” But the main person behind these garments is the cutter, and people can change in and out of jobs. Two cutters at a firm may have different skill sets or interpret a house style differently. I’ve long admired Bruce Boyer’s A&S garments, but his pattern was drafted and cut in the 1970s by Colin Harvey, who has long passed away. Similarly, if you’re at a John Lobb trunk show, you may admire the sample shoes, but the people who made those things are long gone. If you know who will be your last maker or cutter, try to track down examples of that person’s work.

3. Try to track down people who have used that lastmker or cutter, or at least firm. For whatever reason, bespoke customers are happy to post online when they want to crow, but they’re more likely to handle things privately when things go wrong. Many RTW customers, perhaps because they’re dealing with a more faceless entity, are fine with posting about problems online. But the horror stories I hear about bespoke tailoring and shoemaking often come through DMs and emails — people are reluctant to post about their bad experiences online. So if you’re thinking about using a company, try to track down people who have used that company recently and ask them if they can candidly share their experience.

4. I also recommend not getting caught up in thinking of things in terms of categories. Sometimes guys think that bespoke is automatically better than RTW, or some big famous firm is obviously good. In my experience, there are good and bad examples of RTW, MTM, and bespoke. And there’s little correlation between a firm’s prestige and the quality of their work. It’s hard to make broad sweeping generations nowadays. I imagine it used to be that a Savile Row firm was definitely better than some no-name firm, and definitely better than ready-to-wear (in the early stages of factory-made RTW). I don’t think that’s the case anymore.

On the upside, when things go right, there’s really nothing like bespoke, IMO. But you also have to be willing to pay a lot of money, not just for the garments, but for the process of finding the right tailor for you. Sometimes you may also find that you choose the wrong fabric or detail, which is no fault of the tailor. Bespoke comes with some trial and error.

I also agree with Patrick though your clothes don’t have to look perfect for you to look good. Sometimes being too neurotic about this stuff makes you look worse, even if you have pitch-perfect tailoring.