R.I.P. - Louis Boston to Close after 85 Years

[dieworkwear]



had Murray still been running the place, I'll bet he would have seen the changes in menswear coming and adapted better

a) eg. seen the move toward softer, Neapolitan silhouettes and the serendipitous shift toward more casual dress at work and signed Boglioli, LBM, Lardini, etc to exclusive deals to win over the younger buyers who couldn't afford Kiton and Belvest and Zegna. He would have insisted on exclusive fabrics for them he chose to keep the margins and competitors from copying his inventory

b) Murray would have probably fought the trend toward the paper thin Italian wools (Super 150's and above) and had anything made for Louis remain substantial to stand the test of time

c) Murray would have not let the Debi add all the ultra modern mens brands from Japan and elsewhere that she did and kept it classic and timeless, not trendy

d) Murray would have seen how Ralph Lauren styled Double RL stores and gone that direction (vintage, heritage) instead of the stark, bare, ultra-modern way Debi took it.

Imagine the old Louis in their old Newbury St building styled like RRL but with old Boston and Neapolitan themes and 30's Hollywood. Sigh!

e) Murray would have never let the Technicolor Dreamcoat colors Debi let in to come to Louis,,,,he would have stayed traditional earth colors and kept innovating on fabrics instead and signing more exclusive deals even at the cloth factory level like Kiton did

What could have been...

You mean Murray would have catered to a bunch of SF dudes who don't pay retail or shop at big luxury boutiques?

 

[bourbonbasted]



You mean Murray would have catered to a bunch of SF dudes who don't pay retail or shop at big luxury boutiques?

I think this statement is half right. While the aforementioned scenario(s) would certainly be SF-approved, I think Louis got to where it was (at its pinnacle) by anticipating shifts in men's clothing and remaining a fresh player, especially in a somewhat desolate Boston scene.

Either way I think we can all agree the identity crisis that has been "This is what my dad would have liked." vs. "This is what I like." just wasn't working. You can't try to maintain the style and tone of an establishment if you don't care for that style and tone. There either needed to be wholesale changes or she needed to sell to someone who could maintain the passion.

I won't even touch the reluctance of getting into eCommerce.

 

[NorCal_1]



You mean Murray would have catered to a bunch of SF dudes who don't pay retail or shop at big luxury boutiques?

the opposite of that

they strayed too far from their base...the color schemes became either black monotone or Technicolor under Debi and I'm saying Murray wouldn't have gone there with any of his brands

even if the brands themselves went there, Murray would have insisted on his own picks of fabrics (olives and browns and charcoals and blues and earth tones) woven in creative ways to keep evolving

Debi went in the direction of Barney's hipster department, because Debi is a girl and that's what she wanted to see men wearing unfortunately, and Boston is a college town and caters to lots of rich foreign kids

That's not to say she should have had a dept focused on those kids, but certainly not to the exclusion of all the men who wanted classic stuff 75% of the time

Murray would have gone RRL-like - heritage, classic + Italian slant on it and done a barbell strategy of high end and then unconstructed

the beauty of unconstructed taking hold with the trend toward more casual looks at work is it took out a big cost (canvassing) and would have allowed Louis to cater to younger people w/o looking like they were cheapening anything to do it

he would not have missed that opportunity, nor would he have missed the chance to sign exclusive deals using his own chosen fabrics so nobody else offering Boglioli (for example) online or in store could copy Louis aesethetic

 

[NorCal_1]

the problem all the brick and mortar stores face is kind of like the problem wine retailers face - they have to accept a lot of bad stuff in a collection just to get the few good pieces

Murray realized that and worked with the Italian houses to cater to his high standard of taste and didn't accept their junk. He had the power to say no that most don't have today. He either cherry picked the merchandise, influenced it ahead of time or picked our the fabrics himself for the "Belvest for Louis" items or "Kiton for Louis"

B&M and even online retailers today are merchandise takers, not merchandise pioneers and trend setters like Murray was

that's what made Louis great

 

[dieworkwear]

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

 

[NorCal_1]

^ that's funny

but trust me, had you grown up in Boston like I did and lived to see the evolution of Louis, you would know what is now missing (the void it's leaving behind)

seeing Zegna and Luciano Barbera and Belvest and Kiton and Vestimenta (now gone) in the early days was special

 

[comrade]



Curious to know what people think. Is it really about zoning protections, or about the shift from big luxury stores to small boutiques and online shops? Wikes & Bashford had similar problems for many years. Kind of looks like things are turned around now, but TBH, I always wonder if it's going to be around in a few years. Independent, large luxury boutiques seem to be the next to fall after the collapse of luxury department stores (Saks, Neimans, etc). I feel like more people are shopping at online stores and tiny B&Ms now.

Wilkes? I've never been a big fan of Wilkes, having more or less Paul Stuart taste, but I concede that under their founder,
they offered some distinctive clothing in the San Francisco menswear desert. Less so now with their corporate owners.
At least in tailored clothing, difference between Wilkes and their Union Square rivals, Saks, Niemans, and Barneys has
practically vanished.

Re: Louis Boston. When I visited the store in '09 one of the things that put me off and indicated decline was that I was
served in the tailored clothing department by a young stubbled slacker type in torn jeans who hardly knew the inventory.

 

[bourbonbasted]



Re: Louis Boston. When I visited the store in '09 one of the things that put me off and indicated decline was that I was
served in the tailored clothing department by a young stubbled slacker type in torn jeans who hardly knew the inventory.

I was pretty surprised to see this as well. Being a younger guy it was no biggie and the (attractive in an alternative sorta way) young lady who helped us (she had a name so distinctive that I forgot it altogether and only remember how funky it was) was very pleasant. I wouldn't, however, look to her (or any of the dudes working there) for advice.

In contrast, the Morgenthal Frederics boutique rep was in (at least) his mid-60s and had a ton of entertaining stories. It struck me as an odd age spread.

 

[Gus]



Curious to know what people think. Is it really about zoning protections, or about the shift from big luxury stores to small boutiques and online shops? Wikes & Bashford had similar problems for many years. Kind of looks like things are turned around now, but TBH, I always wonder if it's going to be around in a few years. Independent, large luxury boutiques seem to be the next to fall after the collapse of luxury department stores (Saks, Neimans, etc). I feel like more people are shopping at online stores and tiny B&Ms now.

I think the biggest threat to a WIlkes and Neimans is that they have almost completely moved away from co-creating anything in their store or carrying smaller brands to simply stocking the major international brand names. So what are they going to do now that they built up a major following for say Cucinelli and Kiton in San Francisco only to have Cucinelli open a store last year and Kiton to be looking for space now in SF? I don't see either retailer fostering the development of cool, new emerging brands. The strength of WIlkes in it's heyday was that it carried unique products that you couldn't find elsewhere.

The retail analysts have also been saying lately that even on the upper end, gross sales don't mean as much because more and more even the luxury department stores are having to offer more major discounts (20% wont get consumers motivated as it once did) and that people expect bigger sales earlier and earlier in the sales cycle.

Tough times to be a retailer.

 

[89826]

From the dead ...

When I lived in Boston, Louis taught me a hell of a lot. It opened my eyes. I had really known only about Brooks Brothers, Robert Talbot, Southwick, Polo, and the rest of the Ivy League stuff. But the store on Newbury Street was very cool. I bought some things at the store, but used to get lots from the original Filene's Basement. Man, the wardrobe I have now, because of those two places. One of the nicest things I own is an Oxxford suit made for Louis on the M. Pearlstein model: dark grey with a hint of dark green cashmere herringbone thin flannel, with shirt sleeve shoulders and zero padding. It is just insanely nice.

And Attolini (don't think Louis ever carried 'em), Barbera, Kiton, Purple Label, and others that make up most of what I own now. It is what brought me to SF. Oh well.

 

[LA Guy]

I think the biggest threat to a WIlkes and Neimans is that they have almost completely moved away from co-creating anything in their store or carrying smaller brands to simply stocking the major international brand names. So what are they going to do now that they built up a major following for say Cucinelli and Kiton in San Francisco only to have Cucinelli open a store last year and Kiton to be looking for space now in SF? I don't see either retailer fostering the development of cool, new emerging brands. The strength of WIlkes in it's heyday was that it carried unique products that you couldn't find elsewhere.

The retail analysts have also been saying lately that even on the upper end, gross sales don't mean as much because more and more even the luxury department stores are having to offer more major discounts (20% wont get consumers motivated as it once did) and that people expect bigger sales earlier and earlier in the sales cycle.

Tough times to be a retailer.

I think that there are 3 pillars to doing well in e-Retailing in fashion, and from what I've seen, the more successful B&M retailers stand on these three pillars as well.

1) Truly unique product - otherwise, you can't win the price war. Is this a lot more work than simply buying from a collection? Sure, but hey, it's hard out there for a retailer. Collaborations, house branded product that can be bought elsewhere and is actually as good or better than the other brands in store, etc...
2) Buy broad and buy shallow - if I know you have 100 uniques of X, there is a tendency to gamble. Will it make it to sales season? If I know you have 10 units total, between all sizes, y'know, I may get that now.
3) Non-seasonal, constant, releases - all the big, successful, e-tailers seem to do this. This keeps people coming back. This keeps ME coming back. Otherwise, I make a few trips in the fall, and a few in the spring, and then wait for sales season. I want constant engagement. Number 1 and 2 make this possible.

 

[Gus]

That is an excellent summary LA Guy. You should really write a book.


In support of your #1, I continue to see one-of-a-kind pieces (both new and vintage) at more successful men's and women's retailers. It really gives the retailer a feeling of being special.

As far as B&M...The Mayfair Paul Smith store in London has one of a kind antiques, artwork and crazy special commissioned items surrounded by suits and accessories. It really elevates the status of the regular fashion items. The mix is extremely well done which is what makes this such a success. The original RRL store in NOLITA had this same sort of exsquisitely curated combination with vintage pieces, vintage guitars, art and motorcycles all for sale.

 

[europrep]

I was there yesterday...this is the final week they are open. Everything 60% off. I was a bit surprised it wasn't more. Not a huge selection, but some good looking Sartoria Partenopea, Kiton, Belvest, & Brioni remaining in the suits/S.C. section.

 

[LA Guy]

Quote: Debbie Greenberg from http://www.louisboston.com/category/womens-fashion/ I have to disagree completely with Debi.

Her attitude very much reflects an inability and unwillingness to evolve, and if anything, shows that lack of an innovative mind. Just looking at our affiliates, not to mention the many, many, stores that have flourished because, not in spite of, the technology that we have available to us today. I don't think that brick and mortars are dead. I think that brick and mortars actually have a better chance of survival because they have a vastly larger customer base. I do think, however, that stores that want to rest on their laurels and assume that just because something worked in the past, that it should continue to work, are bound to disappear. Louis certainly seemed that way. So I suppose that in a way I do agree with Debi.

 

[TimelesStyle]



I have to disagree completely with Debi.  

Her attitude very much reflects an inability and unwillingness to evolve, and if anything, shows that lack of an innovative mind.  Just looking at our affiliates, not to mention the many, many, stores that have flourished because, not in spite of, the technology that we have available to us today. I don't think that brick and mortars are dead.  I think that brick and mortars actually have a better chance of survival because they have a vastly larger customer base.  I do think, however, that stores that want to rest on their laurels and assume that just because something worked in the past, that it should continue to work, are bound to disappear.  Louis certainly seemed that way.  So I suppose that in a way I do agree with Debi.

Agree 100%. The purpose of the B&M store is evolving and is now more about providing an experience than being a point of sale. The experiential store seems to be the new way to drive online and other channel business and thus can barely break even (or even be a loss leader) because it is part of a bigger picture. This topic comes up all the time in the RL threads; the company makes its money on pony-clad polo shirts, but needs to offer $6k OTR suits as part of a lifestyle that ultimately sells $90 polo shirts. And do you think Verizon decided that a flagship store on Michigan Ave in Chicago was going to sell enough phones to justify the rent? Doubt it. But an experiential store is a great way to get people talking about, and interacting with, a brand. Debi clearly never understood that, otherwise the original Newbury St store would still be there today (as would a warehouse somewhere in Ohio, filled with all the merchandise Louis was selling online).