MC General Chat

[beargonefishing]

A fair amount of internet disagreements are people arguing over definitions. A budget purchase, IMO, would never include a 10k watch. That doesn't mean Simon is wrong--most opinions aren't right or wrong--just that his definition of budget is different than, I suspect, 95-98% of the population.

The humor, to me, is in the disconnect.

 

[clee1982]

Well the Word on the web is that Simon gets his stuff for free in exchange for publicity. I dont know if this is true, and probably only Simon and the makers he features knows the truth. But if only those who could afford his "budget wardrobe" kept reading his blog I have a feeling he would have a large loss of readers.
And maybe not get free stuff as he cant offer super publicity anymore? I dont know, but there is something there that anoys me.

Speaking of budget; great write up.

i thought he commented he doesn’t get stuff for free while back (and when he does he disclaimer). I would imagine a lot of his reader is aspirational too.

if you’re single making $150k ish then everything PS talks about can be stretched to be “affordable” (at least 1 item, rent and tax eats most at that range), and adding English speaking to that crowd with audience he caters too (nyc+London+Chicago) I can definitely see enough readership for his niche.

edit: agree a lot with put this on, especially on bespoke vs RTW, though one thing I would change is don’t get raw denim... any wash without major distressing would be fine

 

[clee1982]

In a random comment, I used to think the idea of waterproof tailoring fabrics was ridiculous. Then I had a kid and I am so happy for my gray water proof wool trousers. Also appreciate that I happened to be into cordovan before her birth. Now I can go to a meeting and look great and then pick her up at day care and hang out in the playground without worrying about soiling my ridiculously expensive clothing. The cordovan looks great again with just a few brush strokes. My Loro Piana Storm System Mackintosh was bought with this in mind, and it has been incredibly useful.

I have just switched to chino and no tailoring on weekends. Regulate drop of I just try to be somewhat careful...

though I don’t find cordovan that magical, if it rains takes forever to clean up, sold all mine...

 

[IJReilly]

I have just switched to chino and no tailoring on weekends. Regulate drop of I just try to be somewhat careful...

though I don’t find cordovan that magical, if it rains takes forever to clean up, sold all mine...

I have read the complaints about rain and cordovan, but my experience is the opposite.

I don’t wear tailoring on the weekends, but I pick up my daughter a few times a week and go to the park with her after pre-school/kindergarten (or whatever it’s called now), and I need clothes which can deal with both a fairly formal line of work and running around with a 4 year old.

 

[Van Veen]

I had a fairly strident series of back-and-forth posts with KW after that announcement. I had an ongoing and rather troubled order with him and was getting frustrated. He compared himself to Richard Branson. I gave up, wished him well, and un-followed the thread. Didn't want to be a troll but also pointed my money elsewhere. Same reason I un-followed the Drake's thread here.

EDIT: as I typed the above response I couldn't help but notice the Drake's ads on the right side of my monitor!

I didn't necessarily mean it as an insult, though I guess it can be taken that way. ?‍♂️

Speaking of budget; great write up.

Glad you touched on the #1 biggest mistake I made (and I assume other people make) when trying to shop on a budget. If you only shop deep discount (clearance, etc.), you wind up with a closet full of clothes that don't work together and very few basics. It's hard to get "steals" on basics.

This is how I wound up with 4 or 5 pairs of chinos at one point, but not one in khaki or stone.

 

[clee1982]

I have read the complaints about rain and cordovan, but my experience is the opposite.

I don’t wear tailoring on the weekends, but I pick up my daughter a few times a week and go to the park with her after pre-school/kindergarten (or whatever it’s called now), and I need clothes which can deal with both a fairly formal line of work and running around with a 4 year old.

your shell are CJ or Alden?

 

[IJReilly]

your shell are CJ or Alden?

Alden color 8.

 

[smittycl]

I didn't necessarily mean it as an insult, though I guess it can be taken that way. ?‍♂️

Oh, no, not taken as an insult at all! Just triggered the memory of my last experience with Kent Wang. Sarotrial PTSD...

 

[dieworkwear]

A fair amount of internet disagreements are people arguing over definitions. A budget purchase, IMO, would never include a 10k watch. That doesn't mean Simon is wrong--most opinions aren't right or wrong--just that his definition of budget is different than, I suspect, 95-98% of the population.

The humor, to me, is in the disconnect.

I think the other thing is that the post is titled "How I'd Shop On a Budget," but it also straddles the line between what he'd do and how he thinks others might want to spend their money. It's personal, but also general.

If I were to write a post only on how I'd shop on a budget -- emphasis on me -- I'd skip all the ready to wear tailoring (tbh) and just go straight to bespoke as well. I'd also skip most of the ready to wear shoes and just get stuff from Nicholas Templeman. Purely because that's what I mostly wear now and what I'm happy with. If I had to really cut back, I'd prob do C&J, like Simon suggests, because that's the most affordable CM type line I wear.

I only have one nice watch (it's not $10k). Like Simon, I also see it as an heirloom piece and, if I were to think about budgets purely in a personal sense, also prob recommend my younger self to just splurge for the watch.

If you assume a very strong connection between your preferences and your readers, then I assume you'd probably also make those recommendations. From what I can tell, Simon and his readers share a pretty narrow set of values around craft and classic clothing. So maybe it's a reasonable set of recommendations. If you're the kind of guy who really only thinks about bespoke, then sure -- may as well get just a couple of pairs of MTM/ bespoke pants, rather than a whole wardrobe of RTW that you don't like.

I like bespoke, but don't share the same view of the process. I also like a lot of RTW and vintage and SWD type stuff. I think guys can look great in Chuck Taylors and Levi's, or even a Ralph Lauren sport coat. But if you share Simon's values, you prob won't find any of that stuff satisfying.

I do think, if you genuinely really covet that stuff, you may as well just get that, instead of cycling through all the "lower-end" alternatives. Many, many years ago, Vox started a thread titled "what would you do if you had to start over," A bunch of bespoke guys chimed and basically said they'd jump into bespoke earlier, instead of doing the Borrelli and Kiton stuff. I think there's some wisdom in that. I just don't think of bespoke or even classic men's clothing as being objectively better than everything else. Most well-dressed people I see on a daily basis are in cheap RTW.

 

[clee1982]

I’m sure if I stick with a few bespoke then dial it in I can get “more” out of bespoke. But if I want to try different silhouette on relative cheap term (like $1k RTW on discount which gives you a lot choice actually) I really can’t see just going bespoke, call me afraid of commitment...

 

[clee1982]

I mean the other thing is the only bespoke I currently want to try are

Cifonelli, Edward Sexton, Gives Hawks, Huntsman, think all of them are in the $6k+ range

the only cheap ish I want to try Thom Sweeney ($4k?)

that’s a lot opportunity cost against playing with various RTW

 

[IJReilly]

I can see Simons perspective on this but I feel he used the word “budget” in a way that is maybe technically correct, but creates unintentional hilarity when the first item is a 10k watch.

If I were to shop on what I think of as a budget, I would get one high end MTM suit, a few pairs of tailored trousers (MTM) a pair of cheap white sneakers, a pair of mid level Goodyear shoes and just a bunch of knitwear and shirts from Arket. Most people in the west can afford that over time and will look great.

 

[dieworkwear]

I can see Simons perspective on this but I feel he used the word “budget” in a way that is maybe technically correct, but creates unintentional hilarity when the first item is a 10k watch.

I agree with that. Maybe the post would have been better as "Stuff I Wish I Bought Earlier."

 

[Van Veen]

When it comes down to it, building a wardrobe from nothing, or close to it, is tough with a tight budget. Now that I am fairly comfortable with my wardrobe and don't really need anything, it's a lot easier to splurge on what I actually want.

Honestly I think the year I spent thrifting & reselling really helped me dial in where I think I should spend money, and where it's not really worth it. (I am the proud owner of 3 Loro Piana polos that I paid a grand total of $12 for. If you dropped $100 million into my lap tomorrow, I still wouldn't buy one at $500 retail.)

This is really the fundamental meaning of budgeting, no? Figuring out where to allocate your resources to get the most bang for your buck. (That said, I will probably never be able to afford bespoke, even if I have the $$$ for it. There are other things I'd rather spend that money on.)

 

[dieworkwear]

When it comes down to it, building a wardrobe from nothing, or close to it, is tough with a tight budget. Now that I am fairly comfortable with my wardrobe and don't really need anything, it's a lot easier to splurge on what I actually want.

Honestly I think the year I spent thrifting & reselling really helped me dial in where I think I should spend money, and where it's not really worth it. (I am the proud owner of 3 Loro Piana polos that I paid a grand total of $12 for. If you dropped $100 million into my lap tomorrow, I still wouldn't buy one at $500 retail.)

This is really the fundamental meaning of budgeting, no? Figuring out where to allocate your resources to get the most bang for your buck. (That said, I will probably never be able to afford bespoke, even if I have the $$$ for it. There are other things I'd rather spend that money on.)

I think it's a lot easier if you give up on the idea of tailored clothing, or even a CM aesthetic, as being the only possible option. Again, some of the most stylish people I know are broke. They're artists, musicians, or just bohemian creative types. A couple of them are farmers (like, literal farmers). But they dress in ways that, on the CM side of this forum, would be ridiculed as hipster or hobo or messy or poor or whatever else.

If you're on a super limited budget, it's hard to do CM well. But there are so many possibilities in men's style. If you just give up on the idea that CM is the only legit aesthetic, you can do a lot of stuff. A lot of high-end designer -- Visvim, Kapital, Bode, etc -- is just recycling low budget, often thrifted, looks anyway. Kapital is the look of gutter punks.

You don't even have to get too crazy with it. A vintage Lees trucker jacket is like $50. You can get black jeans from Levi's for like $50. Then a grey champion sweatshirt, ideally used, for maybe $25. Chuck Taylors are $75 or something. That's a great look right there.

Another great look: Levi's five pocket cords (prob $50). A basic button down shirt (maybe $50 to $100). An LL Bean Norwegian sweater (like $150, I think). A pair of duck boots ($150). Then a floppy baseball cap ($25, ideally used). If you can get those used, they'd be even cheaper.

Wooden Sleepers is very much an affordable look. But when Simon profiled him, some of his commenters called the look messy, hipster, poor, etc.