Jacques Marie Mage - Wolves, Obnoxious Acetate and The American Dream

[Hanto]

Absolutely loved my Sebergs in Havana yet the Havana lens in yellow was super light almost like I was wearing prescription lenses. I’m having the Shade of Pale lenses put in and I’m hoping they will be what I’m looking for, props to @Hanto for sharing with me some pics of the Sebergs in Shade of Pale

I found the Laramie to be too ornate for my tastes. Love the pair itself though, wish it just had the turquoise detail and that’s it. Hopefully JMM does a non-ornate version of that frame

Im going to try out the Saints soon and see if they are worth it

No worries. Wore my pair for the first time last night and they felt great on.

My Scarpa in silver may go the same way as your Havana Seberg. However I have no got used to seeing my eyes through the lenses in a mirror so doesn't really bother too much. No UV protection though.

Anyone got anything the use to store their frames in. I love the JMM briefcase but it's super expensive to ship to UK.

 

[RegisDB9]

No worries. Wore my pair for the first time last night and they felt great on.

My Scarpa in silver may go the same way as your Havana Seberg. However I have no got used to seeing my eyes through the lenses in a mirror so doesn't really bother too much. No UV protection though.

Anyone got anything the use to store their frames in. I love the JMM briefcase but it's super expensive to ship to UK.

Heard from Eric he’s having some briefcases and display boxes made by the same guys that do JMMs. I put myself down for the six slot display case. The briefcase looked pretty cool too. I got the regular burgundy but he had colors like alligator green and mustard

 

[dieworkwear]

Second post!

This post did not age well.

 

[RegisDB9]

The wrath of Fok was swift and my alerts paid the price

 

[dieworkwear]

Sounds like @RegisDB9 is going to get something much cooler from that maker, but if anyone is interested, I use these Muji cases to store eyewear. They're made from a thick plastic. The drawers slide out. They also store JMM frames (at least the three that I own).

You can find them on eBay for about $50 if you search for "Muji glasses case." They ship from Japan.

 

[RegisDB9]

Sounds like @RegisDB9 is going to get something much cooler from that maker, but if anyone is interested, I use these Muji cases to store eyewear. They're made from a thick plastic. The drawers slide out. They also store JMM frames (at least the three that I own).

You can find them on eBay for about $50 if you search for "Muji glasses case." They ship from Japan.

View attachment 1424183
View attachment 1424184

Im having a hard time finding the pics but this exact case minus the JMM branding in mustard/green looked pretty ******* awesome. I believe they are made in France

 

[Hanto]

I currently have the JMM Fellini dark Havana and the Saint noir in my shopping cart. I wish they had more pictures on models from other angles so I could better figure out which one best works for me. My sunglasses are two pairs of well-worn Persols that I have had for 10 years or so so time for a refresh and the wayfarer style seems to work better on my face.

I also like the Saint dark havana frames for glasses but it doen't allow me to buy on line and I have no opticians that carry them in my state.

Can send you more pics/video of a pair of Fellinis, if you want?

Heard from Eric he’s having some briefcases and display boxes made by the same guys that do JMMs. I put myself down for the six slot display case. The briefcase looked pretty cool too. I got the regular burgundy but he had colors like alligator green and mustard

Ok that could be an option. I have found a retailer online that does make them, I think from the same place as the JMM ones. I think its called Jura where they are made, in France. The Muji ones look like a good option. thanks @dieworkwear; one of their stores is near me, so can visit or order them online. I like the idea of getting a setup that is a bit more modular and can accommodate a growing collection!

I imagine most of the cost is a result of them being extremely limited in terms of production numbers. Each frame is limited to a run of 50 to 500, possibly by design (to seem exclusive) and possibly a function of the market (not that many people are going to wear bold frames). Lower production numbers -> higher cost per unit -> higher retail price.

May also be about their manufacturing in Japan. I've noticed that many high-end niche lines, such as DITA, Masahiro Maruyama, and Thom Browne, are manufactured in Japan. I don't know if the quality is functionally different, but I think those frames often look cooler than your standard frames at Eyecrafters.

At a JMM trunk show, I asked the rep about what goes into a pair of JMM frames. He mentioned some things that didn't seem that different from other frames -- the arrowhead pin at the corner, the blockcut cellulose acetate, and the filigree detail that goes down the arm. The only thing I was surprised to hear -- and I don't know if this is true -- is that their cellulose acetate supposedly has a higher concentration of cotton fibers. I vaguely remember him saying that this delays the dulling and clouding you sometimes see on cellulose acetate over time.

There is a forum I use in the UK called Fuk.co.uk, and one of the guys on there makes glasses. He said the key aspect of JMM cost, other than the limited runs, is the tooling used to make them. Because they have tooling that is made specifically for each frame in some cases, it costs more as you cannot spread that investment across multiple frames.

 

[Hanto]

So, I am looking for a pair of new sunglasses. Something cool and SF approved. Money is no option. Anything that fits the bill?

We meet again! Welcome aboard the HMS JMM. Sorry, 'USS' for all those over the pond!

 

[dieworkwear]

There is a forum I use in the UK called Fuk.co.uk, and one of the guys on there makes glasses. He said the key aspect of JMM cost, other than the limited runs, is the tooling used to make them. Because they have tooling that is made specifically for each frame in some cases, it costs more as you cannot spread that investment across multiple frames.

Meaning they manufacture the tools that they use to make these frames? What kind of tools?

That cost seems like it would exceed the profits made from selling the frames, no?

 

[Hanto]

Meaning they manufacture the tools that they use to make these frames? What kind of tools?

That cost seems like it would exceed the profits made from selling the frames, no?

I think so. Not sure to be honest, as I don't work in the industry.

Here is a breakdown of the thread discussion on Fuk:

User:

Tooling costs for detailed metalwork are high. It's pretty much what adds the most cost to frames. For each bit of metal with a pattern on it a tool has to be made, and when a frame is as heavily-detailed as a JMM one it soon adds up. Making in Japan comes at a premium too.

Limited production numbers are also affected by tooling costs. Because the cost for making the tool is fixed the smaller your production run the more that adds per frame. For example if your tooling cost is £1000 and you make 100 frames the tooling cost per frame is £10, but if you make 1000 frames the tooling cost only adds £1 to each frame.

You also have to remember (as with a lot of products, not just eyewear) there are several layers of markups in there. The factory needs to make a profit (usually the smallest profit in the chain), the brand (i.e. JMM) needs to make a profit, the shop needs to make a profit, and there may be a distributor or sales agent in there too. So the multiplier increases. Say for argument's sake a particular frame costs twice as much for a factory to produce compared to another frame. By the time it's reached the customer it won't be twice as expensive as the other one it will be multiple times more expensive.

Beyond that there's also the question of quality which can be a bit more difficult to quantify. I'd say JMM is higher quality than Mr Leight, Dita / Thom Browne and Eyevan certainly, not so sure about Matsuda. To achieve that quality level means working with better factories (who charge more), better materials (which cost more), taking more time (for example tumbling and polishing for longer), etc all of which comes at a cost.

This was my response:

I spoke with someone earlier in the week who said that JMM, as a brand, are a nightmare to deal with. Much more of the creative stream than business, which I guess is a good thing for the consumer, less so for the retailer/distributor.

Interesting point regarding markups too. Apparently the wife of the MD of Seen in MCR is the UK dealer for JMM, hence the markup over there, even above UK retail.

I guess from watching something like the below, it would be good to know how much of that is standard tooling and what would be considered custom.



Regarding the brands, would you say there are any that are on a par or superior to JMM? Chrome Hearts appears to be one, but not seen many of their designs.

His response:

There's no such thing as standard tooling really. There will be some shared components (screws for example, maybe parts of hinges, the metal around a lens known as rimwire) across models but basically any detailing that is different from another model will require another tool to be made.

Plenty of companies use "off the shelf" hinges and rimwire from external suppliers which will be much cheaper as there are no tooling costs but then the look is less distinctive than something that's a unique shape or has a custom pattern.

It's really quite difficult to compare quality directly as there are so many elements to it. One aspect of quality is obviously build quality. A £125 Cubitts frame is very well put together, solidly-built with proper pinned hinges. But it is made with cheaper materials, off the shelf (but high quality) hinges and less detailing than a £600 Jacques Marie Mage frame (although still has custom pins and core wires). Then try to compare those with a £400 Ørgreen frame made in Japan but with very minimalist detailing, or a 20 grand Bentley frame.

Generally anything that's made in Japan will be high quality. Fukui is renowned for its eyewear manufacturing. But even then some Japanese factories now have Chinese subsidiaries where they do some of the work to keep the costs down.

The whole fashion industry is essentially a marketing ploy, JMM aren't unique in that. Would you still be as interested in JMM if they flooded the market with product and everyone you knew was wearing them? Also what might seem like a ploy could just be practicality. JMM aren't a big company and it costs a lot to produce frames. Releasing another colour of an existing model doesn't attract any new tooling costs so makes business sense, particularly if the initial batch was in a limited run of colours anyway (factories typically limit brands to 3 or 4 colours per order)

 

[dieworkwear]

I think so. Not sure to be honest, as I don't work in the industry.

Here is a breakdown of the thread discussion on Fuk:

User:

Tooling costs for detailed metalwork are high. It's pretty much what adds the most cost to frames. For each bit of metal with a pattern on it a tool has to be made, and when a frame is as heavily-detailed as a JMM one it soon adds up. Making in Japan comes at a premium too.

Limited production numbers are also affected by tooling costs. Because the cost for making the tool is fixed the smaller your production run the more that adds per frame. For example if your tooling cost is £1000 and you make 100 frames the tooling cost per frame is £10, but if you make 1000 frames the tooling cost only adds £1 to each frame.

You also have to remember (as with a lot of products, not just eyewear) there are several layers of markups in there. The factory needs to make a profit (usually the smallest profit in the chain), the brand (i.e. JMM) needs to make a profit, the shop needs to make a profit, and there may be a distributor or sales agent in there too. So the multiplier increases. Say for argument's sake a particular frame costs twice as much for a factory to produce compared to another frame. By the time it's reached the customer it won't be twice as expensive as the other one it will be multiple times more expensive.

Beyond that there's also the question of quality which can be a bit more difficult to quantify. I'd say JMM is higher quality than Mr Leight, Dita / Thom Browne and Eyevan certainly, not so sure about Matsuda. To achieve that quality level means working with better factories (who charge more), better materials (which cost more), taking more time (for example tumbling and polishing for longer), etc all of which comes at a cost.

This was my response:

I spoke with someone earlier in the week who said that JMM, as a brand, are a nightmare to deal with. Much more of the creative stream than business, which I guess is a good thing for the consumer, less so for the retailer/distributor.

Interesting point regarding markups too. Apparently the wife of the MD of Seen in MCR is the UK dealer for JMM, hence the markup over there, even above UK retail.

I guess from watching something like the below, it would be good to know how much of that is standard tooling and what would be considered custom.



Regarding the brands, would you say there are any that are on a par or superior to JMM? Chrome Hearts appears to be one, but not seen many of their designs.

His response:

There's no such thing as standard tooling really. There will be some shared components (screws for example, maybe parts of hinges, the metal around a lens known as rimwire) across models but basically any detailing that is different from another model will require another tool to be made.

Plenty of companies use "off the shelf" hinges and rimwire from external suppliers which will be much cheaper as there are no tooling costs but then the look is less distinctive than something that's a unique shape or has a custom pattern.

It's really quite difficult to compare quality directly as there are so many elements to it. One aspect of quality is obviously build quality. A £125 Cubitts frame is very well put together, solidly-built with proper pinned hinges. But it is made with cheaper materials, off the shelf (but high quality) hinges and less detailing than a £600 Jacques Marie Mage frame (although still has custom pins and core wires). Then try to compare those with a £400 Ørgreen frame made in Japan but with very minimalist detailing, or a 20 grand Bentley frame.

Generally anything that's made in Japan will be high quality. Fukui is renowned for its eyewear manufacturing. But even then some Japanese factories now have Chinese subsidiaries where they do some of the work to keep the costs down.

The whole fashion industry is essentially a marketing ploy, JMM aren't unique in that. Would you still be as interested in JMM if they flooded the market with product and everyone you knew was wearing them? Also what might seem like a ploy could just be practicality. JMM aren't a big company and it costs a lot to produce frames. Releasing another colour of an existing model doesn't attract any new tooling costs so makes business sense, particularly if the initial batch was in a limited run of colours anyway (factories typically limit brands to 3 or 4 colours per order)

Right. My understanding is that filigree can add significant cost to a pair of eyewear frames. But there are also frames with filigree that cost much less than JMM's (including ones made in Japan).

Ultimately, I think you're paying for the design and exclusivity. Which seems fine to me, as that's basically all of fashion.

 

[Hanto]

Right. My understanding is that filigree can add significant cost to a pair of eyewear frames. But there are also frames with filigree that cost much less than JMM's (including ones made in Japan).

Ultimately, I think you're paying for the design and exclusivity. Which seems fine to me, as that's basically all of fashion.

I kind of agree. If you look at a brand like Leisure Society, same ethos as JMM, Chrome Hearts etc., but I feel completely misses the mark. Wealth can't buy taste and I think with them, the design, detailing etc. is OTT and the brand appeals to someone who wants to emulate Jay Gatsby. JMM, whilst very brand focused, just seems to be more on the button. I've order a few frames from others recently, including Eyevan 7285 and the packaging etc. from JMM, although appealing to a certain person as well, just feels like an experience more befitting of a premium purchase.

 

[UrbanComposition]

Was I an idiot for throwing away the JMM packaging? I honestly have no idea what to use it for, in an already crowded city apartment.

 

[Hanto]

Was I an idiot for throwing away the JMM packaging? I honestly have no idea what to use it for, in an already crowded city apartment.

Depends if you ever want to shift the frames in the future; do you have any of the warranty/authenticity cards? Having sold two pairs in the past, buyers get quite funny about bits missing/condition.

 

[aladdnzane]

Obviously you've come to the jmm enablenent thread so...yeah absolutely make the switch

Switch has been made. Placed an order for the Fellini in Dark Havana and the Taos Noir 4. Probably going to use the Fellini as an optical/transition lens and the Taos as a sunnie. Now begins the hard part, the waiting game.