Is the suit biz fibbing? Does it matter?

[Artisan Fan]

I was pondering the Kiton and Oxxford threads today...it seems a lot of brands exxagerate what the production quality is. We seem to have learned that:

**Kiton may be exxagerating claims of handwork in the chest.

**Oxxford may be exxagerating claims of handwork in the chest and shoulder.

**Perhaps other brands such as Brioni are also exxagerating.

Yet, it appears there are many fans of all three brands on the board. Does the hype matter if the final product is good?

If a Kabbaz shirt can be a mostly machine made product in some ways and still perform well is handwork over-rated?

If handwork is over-rated does a mostly machine made Zegna suit represent a particular value?

What are your thoughts?

 

[the truth]

lying, yes.

 

[Tarmac]

the 5th thread on the same topic. nice!

 

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

I was pondering the Kiton and Oxxford threads today...it seems a lot of brands exxagerate what the production quality is. We seem to have learned that:

Just pondering, right?

**Kiton may be exxagerating claims of handwork in the chest.

**Oxxford may be exxagerating claims of handwork in the chest and shoulder.

**Perhaps other brands such as Brioni are also exxagerating.

Kiton only exaggerates in the chest, but Oxxford exaggerates more (chest AND shoulder).

Yet, it appears there are many fans of all three brands on the board. Does the hype matter if the final product is good?

If a Kabbaz shirt can be a mostly machine made product in some ways and still perform well is handwork over-rated?

If handwork is over-rated does a mostly machine made Zegna suit represent a particular value?

What are your thoughts?

I am nearly no expert, but I think there are different types of machine stitches. When we say machine stitch, we imagine very quick sewing machines, but I assume that the machine stitches used in Kiton or others are more close to handmade stitches or try to be close.

In Kiton there are probably skilled tailors (probably not artisan level, but somewhat trained and skilled) using very slow sewing machines that are the closest thing to duplicating a human hand sewn stitch. That would explain the high quality in the garments.

Just like there is a big difference in quality of hand sewn work, there must be a difference (like the difference between Zegna and Kiton) in machine work

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by Dragon

:

Kiton only exaggerates in the chest, but Oxxford exaggerates more (chest AND shoulder).




Well, it's machine stitching in the shoulder that causes global warming.

 

[Artisan Fan]

In Kiton there are probably skilled tailors (probably not artisan level, but somewhat trained and skilled) using very slow sewing machines that are the closest thing to duplicating a human hand sewn stitch. That would explain the high quality in the garments.

Are you being serious?

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Tarmac

the 5th thread on the same topic. nice!

Sixth.

 

[Cantabrigian]

"If a Kabbaz shirt can be a mostly machine made product in some ways and still perform well (and if handwork is as important in shirts as in suits) is handwork over-rated?"

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

**Kiton may be exxagerating claims of handwork in the chest.

"May." Yeah.

If a Kabbaz shirt can be a mostly machine made product in some ways and still perform well is handwork over-rated?

If handwork is over-rated does a mostly machine made Zegna suit represent a particular value?

Handwork is much, much more important to a jacket than to a shirt.

 

[Artisan Fan]

Handwork is much, much more important to a jacket than to a shirt.

Well I agree but it seemed like a somewhat useful analogy at the time.

Maybe machines can do straight lines best and maybe even areas where reinforcement is needed but more complex attachments are best done by a trained hand. Something along those lines perhaps...

 

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Are you being serious?

Yes.

I am just assuming that with so much machine sewing (as shown in the pictures) that they have to be very good machine stitches (in comparison to say an average Zegna) in order to come up with such a nice garment.

 

[Artisan Fan]

Originally Posted by Dragon

Yes.

I am just assuming that with so much machine sewing (as shown in the pictures) that they have to be very good machine stitches (in comparison to say an average Zegna) in order to come up with such a nice garment.

Perhaps so. Maybe they are finer stitches or require more accuracy in guiding.

Perhaps we would benefit from a tailor's perspective.

 

[texas_jack]

It seems to me that the value of garments is 3 things: cloth, construction, and style. Various makers have their strengths in these 3 categories but the overall combination is what matters. Perhaps Kiton is best in cloth and style but less so in construction. Maybe Oxxford is best in cloth and construction but lacking in style. What matters is that the makers are strong in all categories. Just an idea.

 

[Artisan Fan]

I think different people have opinions on style so it may come down to personal preference.

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by texas_jack

It seems to me that the value of garments is 3 things: cloth, construction, and style. Various makers have their strengths in these 3 categories but the overall combination is what matters. Perhaps Kiton is best in cloth and style but less so in construction. Maybe Oxxford is best in cloth and construction but lacking in style. What matters is that the makers are strong in all categories. Just an idea.

So if you were playing in a fantasy suit league, you'd need some of each to make sure you'd remain competitive in all the categories.