I'm steamed: Half-canvassed Jos A Bank suit is fused and bubbling

[EzraPaul]

Greenfield used to do one of their lines, I think GF, and in my experience with them they didn't do a fused jacket. It's had to see from that picture what is going on, but I don't see a clear half-canvas.

 

[breakaway01]



It is really not about what I believe but rather, what is fact and what is opinion. My information is coming from the actual source and what I own myself. Furthermore, my SA from the store I used to shopped ( and where I become acquainted with the head of the tailoring department) has been working with BB for 33 yrs and their tailor has been there for almost the same amount of time.

Additionally, they do have a deconstructed version of the 1818 and Golden Fleece model suits in my their MTM department.

Again, BB current suits of the 1818 model are half canvas that is stitched with horse hair and not fused and their GF suits are full canvas and use horse hair as well.

I am just trying to clear up the misinformation that can put forth online so many times

GF is fully canvassed from what I've seen.
I have an 1818 sport coat made in Thailand that is fully canvassed by pinch test and by the label. However the 1818 suits I have seen are all half canvassed. You may not want to believe it but half canvassing almost always has a thin layer of fusible down the front of the jacket to support the fabric. Go search online if you don't want to believe us.

 

[magreen]

Good discussion. I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this.

 

[Alpha11]



GF is fully canvassed from what I've seen.
I have an 1818 sport coat made in Thailand that is fully canvassed by pinch test and by the label. However the 1818 suits I have seen are all half canvassed. You may not want to believe it but half canvassing almost always has a thin layer of fusible down the front of the jacket to give the fabric a little bit of structure/support. Go search online if you don't want to believe us.

I have NO doubt that BB will use a floating half canvas in their Sport jackets especially, those that are moderately priced (498.00 and maybe low) as it is a cost saving mechanism. As such they can afford to sell lower price point item for those customers that are more aesthetic focused rather than the Construction and fabric

 

[Alpha11]



GF is fully canvassed from what I've seen.
I have an 1818 sport coat made in Thailand that is fully canvassed by pinch test and by the label. However the 1818 suits I have seen are all half canvassed. You may not want to believe it but half canvassing almost always has a thin layer of fusible down the front of the jacket to give the fabric a little bit of structure/support. Go search online if you don't want to believe us.

I have NO doubt that BB will use a floating half canvas in their Sport jackets especially, those that are moderately priced (498.00 and maybe low) as it is a cost saving mechanism. As such they can afford to sell lower price point item for those customers that are more aesthetic focused rather than the construction and fabric.

Additionally, I would not argue that companies like Brooks Brothers are/will continue to use some type of half canvas with different degree of hand stitching and fusing to the jacket.

Where I differ or find exception with is that you are comparing a "sport coat" to a actual full suit in the 1818 line and as such making it seem as through it is an absolute assessment of their "suit" line. As I said before you get what you pay for so if you do not go the MTM route or the Golden Fleece Full canvas as well as the half canvas 1818 then you will have different degrees of performance of the actual garment itself.

The OP original issue was that he paid a very low price ( I think like 100-200) and became somewhat perplexed and or upset as to why it did not last as long as he expected.

The majority of my suits rather it be from BB or another company are MTM or total custom/bespoke and have had little to no issues. Additionally, all my OTR suits from BB are made in the US not Thailand and actually came with the Union number inside and the American flag on the lapel.

* Martin Greenfield and the factory has not been used by BB for quite some time*

 

[breakaway01]

Again, BB current suits of the 1818 model are half canvas that is stitched with horse hair and not fused

Agree that 1818 suits are half canvassed. But half canvas construction does not mean there is no fusible. Did you read this link that Chris Despos posted? http://www.styleforum.net/t/269171/canvas-and-suit-construction/0_50

If a jacket is not fully canvassed, then what do you suppose is used to stabilize the fronts of the jacket where there is no canvas? We are not talking about 'unconstructed' jackets.

 

[breakaway01]

I have NO doubt that BB will use a floating half canvas in their Sport jackets especially, those that are moderately priced (498.00 and maybe low) as it is a cost saving mechanism. As such they can afford to sell lower price point item for those customers that are more aesthetic focused rather than the construction and fabric.

Actually my point was that it was the Asian-made 1818 sportcoat that was fully canvassed. I have a made in USA Brooks Brothers 1818 blazer that is half canvassed. Both RTW. I found it rather interesting that the simpler construction is found in the USA-made jacket.

 

[starro]

Actually my point was that it was the Asian-made 1818 sportcoat that was fully canvassed. I have a made in USA Brooks Brothers 1818 blazer that is half canvassed. Both RTW. I found it rather interesting that the simpler construction is found in the USA-made jacket.

If so, and we can confirm there's no fusing, then it would be a tremendous value. Are they still sold, whether at BB or the 'Bay?

 

[jefferyd]

I don't know where that author of sartorialjournal got the idea that there are half-canvas garments without fusible but it's not true.

 

[heldentenor]

I don't know where that author of sartorialjournal got the idea that there are half-canvas garments without fusible but it's not true.

Interesting. Have you had a look inside the new Belvest-made offerings from Drake's? Both they and Simon Crompton make precisely this claim--that the chest and lapels are canvassed, but that there is no fusible content anywhere in the jacket.

To quote Mr. Crompton: "To clarify, half canvassing doesn’t imply any use of fusing. It just means that the canvas runs halfway down the chest, rather than the whole way. Drake’s jackets, like most high-end Italian makes, and half canvassed but have no fusing."

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2016/03/drakes-soft-stylish-jackets.html

 

[jefferyd]

Simon Crompton is an enthusiast, not a technician and is likely mistaken. It's not 100% impossible but very improbable that there is no fusing. Since they are unlined it would be easy to see. If someone has one, let's have a peek.

 

[Mr. Six]

The Drake's jackets are partially lined with the jacketing itself, from the shoulder to the middle in front. If I remember correctly, the fabric then curves so that it only partially lines the bottom half, toward the buttons. The lower half of the front is mostly unlined. They're complete unlined in back. I don't know if that description makes sense. The canvas is between the two layers of jacketing in the top half. There was no fusible in the bottom half that I could see between the two layers of jacketing fabric. It's possible that I'm mis-remembering.

 

[heldentenor]

Have you checked 'em out in person, Mr. Six? Any thoughts?

 

[Mr. Six]

From the Drake's Appreciation Thread:

Stopped into the Drake's pop-up this afternoon. The staff was very nice and easily discussed their products. They said that business had been good so far. A permanent outpost is a possibility.

They had a nice sampling of ties, squares, scarves, shirts, sport coats, sweaters, and other products. All of the ties are 7cm or 8cm. I asked about 9cm. The reaction from the staff was interesting--strongly suggesting that they view that width as "classical," which I took as English polite for not their target market. Which is fine.

I confirmed that the sport coats are made by Belvest. The story related to me is that Michael Drake worked for Belvest before founding Drakes, so it's a nice bit of tradition to be working with them. It's their unique block, so you shouldn't see the same jacket from anyone else. The jackets are half-canvassed, completely unlined, and very softly tailored. Almost but not quite unstructured. The sleeves are full. I thought the fit was pretty good. The length of the jackets is good. The seams are nicely taped. People interested in the jackets should note that they have an inset patch ticket pocket. (I hadn't noticed in the online photos.) It's not a detail that I like, and might not be to others' preference, so I mention it so that people buying online won't be surprised. The lapels are not skinny, but a bit narrower than I would prefer. The tweeds are from Harris. The person I talked to didn't know which mill produced the other fabrics but said they were British. All of the fabrics were nice. The solid brown, green, and navy were all nice colors, textures, and weights. The patterned jackets were good, though I wasn't a big fan of the grey glen check.

The sales staff said that they would like to start offering more MTO jackets and ties. They expect to expand the offerings slowly (we talked about the difficulty of timing fabric availability for MTO with their production schedule) but should have swatches available in a month or so. That was mostly regarding the absence of 9cm ties, but my understanding was that it also included jackets (I hope I got that right).

I'm not NY resident but visit enough that I knew the area where the pop-up is located. It's in an area with a number of well known fashion stores. So it was interesting to see Drake's there. In combination with the recent expansion of their offerings and partnership with other brands, the location did make me wonder whether they're trying to push their brand in the direction of more mainstream fashion brands. If that's the case, it will be interesting to see what the future holds for them.

 

[Alpha11]

What mills will they be using?