english shoes quality heirachy

[TheChihuahua]

I like the look of some Alden options although I live in the UK and they are hard to come by here and very expensive when available.

I have heard that they are generally not as well finished as the likes of C&J. I think stitching was mentioned as well as the use of a fibreboard heel stack rather than leather.

However Alden also seem to be renowned for being built to last and very comfortable so I think they are built to a decent standard.

I think in the UK Alden is hard to justify when we have C&J, Trickers, Alfred Sargent, Cheaney to mention a few, so readily available without large shipping and duty fees on top. However I still find myself tempted by an Indy boot etc.

so keep in mind I only wear oxfords.The more rugged style Alden’s might be a bit more respected.

my Alden’s are well made. I have had them for a dozen years. Been resoled once and are good shoes. That said,they really aren’t any better thanMany if my Allen Edmonds for oxfords. They are a similar clunky style (neither of the American brands have that sleek look of a Spanish shoe or the elegance of the Northampton shoes, they are more workmanlike). They seem similar quality in terms of leather. I think you would have better quality control with Alden than Allen Edmonds (I have had to send Allen Edmonds back in the past for manufacturing issues). But a good pair of Allen Edmonds are very similar to Alden dress shoes. Neither has a beveled waist or invisible channel stitching or superb finishing in the inner lining. They are both just well made shoes (which I am fine with).

as I said above, I think I prefer my Cheaneys over Alden. Alden is more expensive, but cheaneys are just as well made and more elegant looking. Alden doesn’t go above Cheaney in the finishing department (and the intricacies of fine finishing isn’t necessarily what I am looking for).

so I guess I’m sort of at the same quandary re: Cheaney vs Crockett and Jones. Is it worth the upgrade in price (of it is I have no problem paying). Or is it more like an Alden vs Allen Edmonds comparison where the more expensive might be a more consistent product in terms of quality control but ultimately the distinction can be very minor if you get a pair from each brand that you like.

 

[TheChihuahua]

I think with Edward Green you pay a lot more for near flawless finishing and better quality of leather. They are also more selective of which bits of the hide they use and therefore make less pairs of shoes per hide than a lesser maker, which in turn obviously raises the cost.

It's diminishing returns the higher up the price range you go but I don't see the harm if you want to save and get a really special pair that should last you a very long time.

is the better quality leather more comfortable? Or is itmore cosmetic due to fewer blemishes? Seems to be so much debate on that issue. I don’t know myself.
I use the Alden/Allen Edmonds example above. Alden supposedly has better leather quality but it doesn’t result in anything noticeable in terms of everyday wear or staying power. It results in a more consistent product, but not necessarily better if yin get a good pair of Allen Edmonds.

thanks for the info

 

[Reiver]

so keep in mind I only wear oxfords.The more rugged style Alden’s might be a bit more respected.

my Alden’s are well made. I have had them for a dozen years. Been resoled once and are good shoes. That said,they really aren’t any better thanMany if my Allen Edmonds for oxfords. They are a similar clunky style (neither of the American brands have that sleek look of a Spanish shoe or the elegance of the Northampton shoes, they are more workmanlike). They seem similar quality in terms of leather. I think you would have better quality control with Alden than Allen Edmonds (I have had to send Allen Edmonds back in the past for manufacturing issues). But a good pair of Allen Edmonds are very similar to Alden dress shoes. Neither has a beveled waist or invisible channel stitching or superb finishing in the inner lining. They are both just well made shoes (which I am fine with).

as I said above, I think I prefer my Cheaneys over Alden. Alden is more expensive, but cheaneys are just as well made and more elegant looking. Alden doesn’t go above Cheaney in the finishing department (and the intricacies of fine finishing isn’t necessarily what I am looking for).

so I guess I’m sort of at the same quandary re: Cheaney vs Crockett and Jones. Is it worth the upgrade in price (of it is I have no problem paying). Or is it more like an Alden vs Allen Edmonds comparison where the more expensive might be a more consistent product in terms of quality control but ultimately the distinction can be very minor if you get a pair from each brand that you like.

Tricky one, I have never actually owned a pair of Cheaney but have had hands on experience with a few. They are very impressive quality in my opinion and I would absolutely own a pair. I would say C&J might have the edge but we're not talking much difference.

C&J Handgrade should be an upgrade though, I think their leather is supposed to come close to Esward Green although I have no evidence of this, just what I have read somewhere in the past.

I would also recommend Carmina if you are looking for a high standard of finish and closed channel etc.

The Church's Consul has often been stated as one of the better oxfords and is one I would consider. It is quite classic in design with quite a round toe but is supposed to be nicely made and comfortable. Church's aren't a Styleforum favourite and I think some of their newer models aren't great but if you stick to the classic models they are still up there with C&J etc in my opinion.

 

[TheChihuahua]

Tricky one, I have never actually owned a pair of Cheaney but have had hands on experience with a few. They are very impressive quality in my opinion and I would absolutely own a pair. I would say C&J might have the edge but we're not talking much difference.

C&J Handgrade should be an upgrade though, I think their leather is supposed to come close to Esward Green although I have no evidence of this, just what I have read somewhere in the past.

I would also recommend Carmina if you are looking for a high standard of finish and closed channel etc.

The Church's Consul has often been stated as one of the better oxfords and is one I would consider. It is quite classic in design with quite a round toe but is supposed to be nicely made and comfortable. Church's aren't a Styleforum favourite and I think some of their newer models aren't great but if you stick to the classic models they are still up there with C&J etc in my opinion.

I went with TLB Mallorca over carmina as I liked one of their options better. Supposed to be similar quality. I like them, but honestly I wear the cheaneys more.
I also have cobbler union oxfords that are super sleek and very well finished, but they don’t seem to be wearing as well long term. The leather just seems flimsy and the invisible channel stitching is wearing out funny (peeling off like tape rather than a gradual wear).

I guess that’s why I’m looking up the ladder in English shoes. I am very impressed with the cheaneys so curious moving forward.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Reiver]

is the better quality leather more comfortable? Or is itmore cosmetic due to fewer blemishes? Seems to be so much debate on that issue. I don’t know myself.
I use the Alden/Allen Edmonds example above. Alden supposedly has better leather quality but it doesn’t result in anything noticeable in terms of everyday wear or staying power. It results in a more consistent product, but not necessarily better if yin get a good pair of Allen Edmonds.

thanks for the info

In my limited experience it is quite supple which should aid comfort subject to a good fit of course.

Better hides used more selectively usually results in less heavy creasing, they polish up better and should age better in the long run. No guarantees though as there so many different leathers from different tanneries.

I once found a pair of Edward Green shoes for £25 and they looked very beaten up and not impressive at all. Gave them a thorough clean and a good polish and they looked amazing afterwards. They seemed to take polish really well and after conditioning were very supple. They certainly impressed me after an initial disappointment.

 

[JustPullHarder]

is the better quality leather more comfortable? Or is itmore cosmetic due to fewer blemishes? Seems to be so much debate on that issue. I don’t know myself.
I use the Alden/Allen Edmonds example above. Alden supposedly has better leather quality but it doesn’t result in anything noticeable in terms of everyday wear or staying power. It results in a more consistent product, but not necessarily better if yin get a good pair of Allen Edmonds.

thanks for the info

I don't personally find that my EGs are more comfortable than me AEs but I feel they look better and hence with the money.

 

[TheChihuahua]

I don't personally find that my EGs are more comfortable than me AEs but I feel they look better and hence with the money.

thank you. That’s good to know. If it’s cosmetic, great, absolutely worth paying for to somebody looking for a shoe they really like. No problem with that.

 

[DrewMill]

I recently picked up 2 pairs of Cheaney a and find them to be fantastic. I like them better than my TLB Mallorca, cobbler union, or Alden’s (not British brands but comparable to slightly higher price points).

out of the box they weren’t quite as impressive, sort of ho hum. Finishing is nothing special. But they have broken in so well and are such a sturdy everyday shoe.

the exact opposite of say cobbler union who’s finishing is fantastic and look amazing out of the box but after continued wear lose their luster.

i am starting to look at some Crockett and Jones and/or George Cleverly, or maybe I even wait a touch longer and go with Edward green. But I’m not sure what I would expect in terms of upgrade over Cheaney?

I was looking at Gaziano and Girling, but they seem like their selling point is more hand painted patina (which I have no interest in) and look a bit more refined/elegant, which appeals more to fancier social gatherings than a mere sturdy workmanlike business professional shoe.

appreciate any insight.

I'm looking for this exact information too! I have a few Cheaney shoes that I really like, but I'm curious how they compare to brands like C&J and Tricker's.

 

[Nickd]

From the manufacturers I've owned shoes by, the hierarchy goes like this (and yes, I know Carmina are Spanish)

Edward Green
C&J
Tricker's
Carmina
Cheaney
Church's
Barkers
Loake

You get better finishing and better, more consistent leather quality as you go up the list. When you get to EG, and to some extent C&J you are paying for them throwing away most of the hide as well (probably selling it on, but you know what I mean).

The top 3 you are paying for a better level of QC as well, that you don't get with Carmina and below.

Broadly comfort is similar across all those brands, and once you get to Cheaney and above, so is longevity. I find EG the most comfortable, but that's just how they fit me, and I have the most experience with them.

 

[Eucris]

From the manufacturers I've owned shoes by, the hierarchy goes like this (and yes, I know Carmina are Spanish)

Edward Green
C&J
Tricker's
Carmina
Cheaney
Church's
Barkers
Loake

You get better finishing and better, more consistent leather quality as you go up the list. When you get to EG, and to some extent C&J you are paying for them throwing away most of the hide as well (probably selling it on, but you know what I mean).

The top 3 you are paying for a better level of QC as well, that you don't get with Carmina and below.

Broadly comfort is similar across all those brands, and once you get to Cheaney and above, so is longevity. I find EG the most comfortable, but that's just how they fit me, and I have the most experience with them.

Good effort but for such comparisons you really need to compare apples with apples. As an example, Cheaney has a few ranges, IMHO the Imperial range is superior to the top range of both Trickers and Carmina.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

These things always remind of those arguments about who would win in an all out war between the Marvel superheroes and the DC superheroes.

 

[Eucris]

These things always remind of those arguments about who would win in an all out war between the Marvel superheroes and the DC superheroes.

Agreed, providing we're not comparing Robin with the Incredible Hulk

 

[Nickd]

Good effort but for such comparisons you really need to compare apples with apples. As an example, Cheaney has a few ranges, IMHO the Imperial range is superior to the top range of both Trickers and Carmina.

Good effort! Thanks Dad! ?

They aren’t superior from what I’ve seen, but then I haven’t liked any of the Imperial range enough to buy them so I don’t know how they would wear so I can’t speak to their longevity. The leather wasn’t any better than their standard range and the sole upgrade (bevelling etc) wasn’t as well executed as it could be.

But like all these things it’s a combination of people’s opinions that gets you towards an objective answer. One person’s opinion isn’t worth much on its own.

 

[Eucris]

Not quite, Cheaney's Imperial range is unquestionably superior to its standard offering, I have a pair so I speak from experience. In any case, I'll take a leave here.

 

[DrewMill]

FYI Tricker’s loafers just went on sale today. Thoughts on these?

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