Why do people hate on jeans like rock & republics and sfam?

blackplatano, I think you miss the point.

The reason I have such disdain for "mall brand" jeans are their lack of integrity. Sure, the quality may be decent but you are buying a fake product. On the extreme end, TR/RR/7/etc jeans are poser jeans in that they are selling a certain contrived look. They are not true representations of a pair that has been lived in.

The point is, companies have cashed in on the denim market, creating a diluted and these days fake product. Japanese denim is bought not only because of its quality, but it's faithfulness to the origins of denim and the people who live their lives in them.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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Are we talking about the fabric or the end product? We typically hear that Men's Wearhouse suits are falling apart faster than Kiton than do when it is Levi's purchased at TJ Maxx compared to the Samurai's purchased from some Japanese proxy service. While there are differences in "quality" of the end product, I think the range between the "good and the bad" is a lot smaller than it is with tailored clothing. That's why I think be it Rock & Republic for the bros or the 45 RPM for the SF kiddies in the know it still comes down to marketing and preceived brand image and appeal.
This is why I can't convince myself to buy anything more than a pair of 511s, and the same goes for street clothing in general, at least on my salary. I'd say that in some respects, it is would be disingenuous of me to spend so much money on styles derived from subcultures where that sort of thing is eschewed (I don't really live in the industry), but lord knows that if I won the lottery, I would be all over the pricey items people love around here. I'm not denying, however, that the Japanese makers aren't objectively better in quality than 7fam et al. That depends on your criteria.

Originally Posted by constant struggle

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this is huge for me, i don't like to be associated with the general everyday typical college bro
Yes, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with distinguishing oneself from others.

Originally Posted by braidkid

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blackplatano, I think you miss the point.

The reason I have such disdain for "mall brand" jeans are their lack of integrity. Sure, the quality may be decent but you are buying a fake product. On the extreme end, TR/RR/7/etc jeans are poser jeans in that they are selling a certain contrived look. They are not true representations of a pair that has been lived in.

The point is, companies have cashed in on the denim market, creating a diluted and these days fake product. Japanese denim is bought not only because of its quality, but it's faithfulness to the origins of denim and the people who live their lives in them.

Well, one could extend that argument to say that it's disingenuous to wear jeans if you don't pan gold. One of the main reasons people buy clothing is to achieve a certain aesthetic, so I'm not seeing how it's disingenuous for a company to do the same.

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

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I've made the argument that there is significant groupthink going on

That is true for everything, and it is not bad. Conventional wisdom is better than independent idiocy.

I think it's diningenuous in this day to say you like niche denim for its "authenticity". If that **** wanted to be so "authentic" it would sell for $25. I think many of us like a romantic notion of what wearing that particular denim brings, as an allusion to a certain lifestyle (whether it's subcultural, stealth wealth, etc)

Originally Posted by Dedalus

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That is true for everything, and it is not bad. Conventional wisdom is better than independent idiocy.

It's fine if you don't want to achieve your own personal style.

Originally Posted by blackplatano

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I think what I wrote is a valid point. I don't post in SuFu anymore because of the extreme groupthink and the whole Idea that some brands are holy and can't be critized no matter how many times the crotch breaks in less than a month. I simply think that we should expect more of our jeans if we are going to praise them as been the greatest thing in the world. If they fail to perform how can we still see them as quality just because everyone says they are? We wouldn't be any different then that teenaged girl who thinks 7fams are the best jeans in the world because the celebs wear them and they cost $200.
Depends on what you mean by "perform." I think that SuFuers definition of performance isn't in the fact that the jeans stay together, but rather in how the item fades with use, how strong of a contrast they can get (thus the lack of washing). A crotch blow may seem like a performance issue for non-SuFuers, but it can also be seen as war scars, as in, damn, that guy must've been wearing the F*** out of them. It comes with the territory in terms of what they're trying to get out of the jeans.

Originally Posted by braidkid

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blackplatano, I think you miss the point.

The reason I have such disdain for "mall brand" jeans are their lack of integrity. Sure, the quality may be decent but you are buying a fake product. On the extreme end, TR/RR/7/etc jeans are poser jeans in that they are selling a certain contrived look. They are not true representations of a pair that has been lived in.

The point is, companies have cashed in on the denim market, creating a diluted and these days fake product. Japanese denim is bought not only because of its quality, but it's faithfulness to the origins of denim and the people who live their lives in them.

If it weren't for 7FAM, True Religion, etc there wouldn't be the SF approved denim market.

Whatever, I'm moving on to Dior anyway.

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

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Well, one could extend that argument to say that it's disingenuous to wear jeans if you don't pan gold. One of the main reasons people buy clothing is to achieve a certain aesthetic, so I'm not seeing how it's disingenuous for a company to do the same.

I think both you and I know jeans aren't just for panning gold anymore. It is fine if you want to buy a contrived stressed pair. I would rather the jeans reflect MY life and not someone else's.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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If it weren't for 7FAM, True Religion, etc there wouldn't be the SF approved denim market.

I dont get it.

There is groupthink in everything and that is certainly a reason why people hate on designer jeans here. It is unfortunate that humans act this way, perhaps, but it also seems like a silly reason to rag on SF members when clearly people who buy really expensive trendy jeans with ugly fades and gaudy pocket stitchings are operating in at least as much of a herd mentality as anyone here.

I don't, however, believe groupthink is by any stretch the only reason people here hate on TR type jeans.

Personally, I truly find them aesthetically displeasing. True Religions are honestly the ugliest brand of jeans I've ever seen, just on an aesthetic level (and barring **** like baggy hip hop jeans where someone has sewn every NBA team logo on).

Secondly, their quality simply is not on par with their price. If Rock and Republic and 7FAM sold for 60 bucks I wouldn't hate on them, but the idea that someone is going to pay 300 bucks to buy a medicore pair of jeans just seems silly to me. I've always felt this way. It is like buying some crappy t-shirt for 50 bucks because it has a little Abercrombie and Fitch logo when you could buy a shirt that felt and fit just as good for one fifth of that price.

I've always thought the aesthtic style of those types of jeans was ugly. Long before I ever heard of raw denim I would still only buy dark levi's without any prefading or fake whiskers or any of that.

To me, defending those jeans on the grounds that there quality isn't all that horrible seems almost irrelevant to me. People do not buy those jeans for the quality anymore than they buty those t-shirts for the quality.

They buy them for the brand name. They are paying for the image and the status that said brand entails. The quality is of little to no interest to 99% of the people who own a pair of True Religions, or whatever. You could slap their ugly stiching and logos on a pair of cheescloth and people would buy it.

Originally Posted by Dedalus

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Yes, I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with distinguishing oneself from others.

There isn't anything wrong with it. Though for me it is more a matter of not wishing to have certain preconceived notions placed on me, if that makes sense.

Like it or not, the reality is that dressing a certain way will make people who meet you make certain assumptions. That is just the way life works. I prefer to avoid those kinds of "mall brands" for any clothing items more because I don't want to be associated with those images more than because I want to be some radical fashion individual. Of course, it helps that I find their clothing ugly.

Originally Posted by braidkid

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blackplatano, I think you miss the point.

The reason I have such disdain for "mall brand" jeans are their lack of integrity. Sure, the quality may be decent but you are buying a fake product. On the extreme end, TR/RR/7/etc jeans are poser jeans in that they are selling a certain contrived look. They are not true representations of a pair that has been lived in.

The point is, companies have cashed in on the denim market, creating a diluted and these days fake product. Japanese denim is bought not only because of its quality, but it's faithfulness to the origins of denim and the people who live their lives in them.

^^^ This is an increadible post.

You are rebelling from the marketing by embracing the opposite extreme and thus embracing a monster similar to the one that you are trying to avoid (groupthink, japanese denim marketing, the whole "authenticity" concept).

If you discount TR/RR/7 because the look is contrived, then you must also discount antiqued shoes, Carpe Diem boots, distressed leather goods as poser clothing too (by your logic).

If you dislike "premium denim" because of a bad association, which is perfectly OK, you can not in term try to rationalize your dislike in terms of tangible qualities.
That is what goes on in SF. People dislike the image of TR/7/RR and then try to rationalize their dislike by critizing real qualities (like fit), but those real qualities aren't the reason, bad association is, so in the end their arguement is not valid.

Then, noobs join the website and automatically accept everything as gospel. Then groupthink takes over.


Braidkid, If dislike mall brands and like *** brands because of the reasons you mentioned then more power to you.

Seriously, all I want is a pair of raw jeans in a nice fit that is built as well as possible to 21st century standards, not with the flaws of 1900's Levi's.
Authenticity, like uniqueness, doesn't come from clothes, it comes from you. The whole authenticity aspect of Japanese repros doesn't attract me because the act of researching a pair of jeans then paying some guy in japan to buy them for you is pretty unauthenthic. Authenticity would be buying it down the street.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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If it weren't for 7FAM, True Religion, etc there wouldn't be the SF approved denim market.

You could probably make that statement for 7FAM/Evisu/Diesel but probably not TR which came significantly later. I imagine Socal is trying to make the point that those brands established the price point and it would be difficult for niche brands to justify the price if that precedent didn't exist.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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If it weren't for 7FAM, True Religion, etc there wouldn't be the SF approved denim market.

Not true. Some *** raw denim brands have been around for decades.