Car totaled, need new 1, BMW vs Lexus

A 335i will drive and handle much better than an IS350, not to mention felling a lot better and more responsive at low and high speeds. Granted, the IS is the most responsive Lexus currently made, but that’s like saying you have the best appliance a company makes, its still going to be just an appliance.

There are some things that I really didn’t like about the IS, including:

1) No rear fold-down seats. Period. They aren’t even an option. It’s smaller inside than a 3-series.

2) Warranty / included maintenance is better than anything Lexus offers. My Audi’s warranty / scheduled maintenance is almost on par with BMW’s, Lexus’ is far behind.

3) The interior and it’s design was completely unappealing to me, it just felt awkward, I might not love the new 3-series interior design compared to the old E46, but I’ll take it any day over the IS.

Go drive both cars and decide for yourself. If you want something bigger, go for either a 5-series or an Audi A6 (with Quattro!). Or if you want something a bit different, go drive a Mercedes CLS550; it’s an awesome looking car, inside and out.

Jon.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Click to expand...

The Levinson electronics and speakers are not the same design as the Logic 7. They are fully developed by ML which is a bit unusual in the case of the speakers. The CD transports are made by Pioneer or Panasonic but everything else is true Levinson. The ELS in Acura sounds good but I don't like the Logic systems as much.

Actually, it is Harman International. The speakers (and amplification) may be different, but the sound quality is similiar imo....comparing the 3 to teh IS anyway. Mark Levinson has nothing to do with the design of the Lexus sound system any longer. I am not saying it is a good system, but it certainly isn't that much better than others...especially for teh price.

edit: I am certainly no audiophile, so my comparison on sound quality will be different than yours.

Apparently, all the other models besides the LS were based on existing models sold in Japan as Toyotas. For example, the ES is a glorified Camry.

Click to expand...

Actually no. My wife drives a Camry. The powertrain and engine are the same but tuned differently. Both great cars by the way but the Lexus models are much more refined and are typically made in different factories like Tahara. You get better paint, leather, interior wood, finish levels, and loads more features. Still the Camry can be a fantastic value for dollar. The new styling leaves me cold however (the front anyway). The Avalon is sort of a budget Lexus I admit.

Mark Levinson has nothing to do with the design of the Lexus sound system any longer.

Click to expand...

ML the brand does, ML the person has not been the designer at Levinson for many, many years. The important point is that the ML design team does the work and they are A+ audio people.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Click to expand...

ML the brand does, ML the person has not been the designer at Levinson for many, many years. The important point is that the ML design team does the work and they are A+ audio people.

Ya, I guess this was my point. ML is just a name for the upcharge Lexus sound system, the design team is from Harman who is the company that designs systems for other non Lexus luxury cars.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Click to expand...

Actually no. My wife drives a Camry. The powertrain and engine are the same but tuned differently. Both great cars by the way but the Lexus models are much more refined and are typically made in different factories like Tahara. You get better paint, leather, interior wood, finish levels, and loads more features. Still the Camry can be a fantastic value for dollar. The new styling leaves me cold however (the front anyway). The Avalon is sort of a budget Lexus I admit.

I am sure the model has evolved since the beginning. The original ES (and perhaps still the current, I don`t know) was based on the Camry.

You pretty much described what I meant by GLORIFIED CAMRY. They take the core of the Camry, and put on more expensive stuff (like leather, and expensive features), a different body with better paint, then call it a luxury car for the U.S market That`s what they do for the IS, and LX too.

LEXUS = Luxury EXport U.S.

Seriously, would you not purchase a car do to the sound system it has? You know, you can replace the speakers...

Jon.

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Click to expand...

Seriously, would you not purchase a car do to the sound system it has? You know, you can replace the speakers...

Jon.

The true sound sytem comes from the engine bay for me.

Originally Posted by Artisan Fan

Click to expand...

The important point is that the ML design team does the work and they are A+ audio people.

Before the takeover by the Lexicon group in Harman, ML engineers could not design their way out of a wet paper bag: ridiculously stupid and primitive designs for their "statement" DAC, unstable amplifiers into a resistor (a resistor!!), and amps that would burst into flames. These days, much of their design is done by the Lexicon people (the same group that did Logic 7), and those people know what they're doing, but they've been having problems getting the existing ML designs manufacturable. I have no idea about their car audio stuff, but it strikes me as badge engineering on the part of Toyota.

On the other hand, I got to drive a current Camry recently and came away very impressed: the handling was quite decent for what it is (FWD comfort sedan). The shocks were a bit underdamped, and there's the inevitable torque steer, but very impressive. It's also a very quiet and smooth car.

--Andre

Originally Posted by LSeca

Click to expand...

The true sound sytem comes from the engine bay for me.

Jon.

Seriously, would you not purchase a car do to the sound system it has? You know, you can replace the speakers

Click to expand...

Guess again. A high end car system is tuned take into account the acoustic properties and dimensions of a specific interior. Sometime the interior is changed for acoustical reasons as well.

Room acoustics can be as important as fine playback gear.

Cars are too noisy for a good audio experience. It doesn't matter if it's a Lexus.

--Andre

Originally Posted by Andre Yew

Click to expand...

Cars are too noisy for a good audio experience. It doesn't matter if it's a Lexus.

--Andre

Rubbish. Lexus are plenty quiet for audiophile listening. You should hear my stereo. You can hear the layers of an orchestra nicely defined.

The best Audio system (from a manufacturer) found in a car today is the B&O system option on the Audi A8, it's simply amazing.

Jon.

I think I am leaning towards Lexus. Especially if it's recommended by AF and AP, who have a high standard for finer things in life. But I'll test drive them to be sure.

I absolutely loved my E38 (short wheelbase version), it's fun to drive, responsive, precise, rounding corners like nobody's business, great connection to the road and feedback to driver, and nimble even for its size. It had all the creature comfort gadgets.

But it's a high-maintenance vehicle. Just off top of my head, I'd replaced both catalyptic converters, O2 sensor, radiator, fuel pump, thermostat, instrument panel, coolant reservior, and motion sensor. Fortunately they're all covered by warranty, but it's still a hassle. And the nav was extremely slow at times causing me to miss exits but the dealer wouldn't replace it. I can't imagine owning it without warranty. May be I picked a lemon. Strangely, it had been relatively trouble-free in the past year or so.