Ambrosi Napoli

@#$% guys, it's a shirt probably made from some fine 140s poplin. It's not going to drape like a heavy flannel jacket. A photograph of a real-world shirt worn in a certain posture isn't going to look like a shot straight out of GQ.

Fine fabrics highlight fit problems, no doubt about it. But those pull lines are not random. This is right out of shirt fitting 101, probably the most common fit problem you see with shirts. Often it's just one shoulder (usually the right).

Originally Posted by quar

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@#$% guys, it's a shirt probably made from some fine 140s poplin. It's not going to drape like a heavy flannel jacket. A photograph of a real-world shirt worn in a certain posture isn't going to look like a shot straight out of GQ.
I agree that the shirt looks fine, but Kabbaz made a huge point in his youtube videos that getting rid of that chest/shoulder wrinkle is something that only the most elite bespoke shirtmakers can accomplish. The loose cuffs thing is a separate issue and something that I would think any bespoke shirtmaker would take care of (assuming it is actually an issue and not a camera trick).

I love how a real-world photograph of a AK shirt can completely re-derail, an already well derailed thread. Almost makes me feel bad by starting it all be asking Manton who made it (with my suspicion of AK in mind).

Originally Posted by Big A

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I don't see anything about you being Asian, short (I took care to note it was a figurative term), or low/middle/upper class in the post above. I said you were arrogant and by calling you a joke I guess I implied that you are deluded about your own importance. Those are conditions that have no relation to race, creed or color. For you to continually state otherwise may say something about your own insecurities, but those issues aren't mine. Your need to revert to your superior vocabulary, complaints about big words, etc., when nothing of the sort was ever mentioned, just adds fuel to that fire.

You'll recall that I looked in on this thread because I had planned to get some Ambrosi pants. If you think I came here to attack you that's your own inflated sense of self importance rearing it's head. I did get involved in a fight that wasn't primarily mine, so I'll go ahead and take the blame for that.

In any event Manton's decision to post actual info plus Ambrosi's little bombshell have taken the fight out of me. I guess we'll never decide whether you are an arrogant, condescending, overly self important prick or I'm a class-obsessed, raving, mentally unbalanced lunatic. Maybe someone will take a poll, though I can't imagine anyone, including me, really caring one way or the other.

As an aside, I'm now leaning back toward ordering for some reason ....

You can backtrack all you like, but there is no framework that would make any sense of this lunatic post that isn't built on class insecurity and ugly racial prejudice.

The first few pages of this thread were just awesome. SF is BACK, my babies.


Going in reverse order:

1. Kabbaz's shirt does not look great. But Manton, your photography is abysmal and that might have something to do with it. Let me also say, on a completely unrelated note, that I really can't stand Kabbaz the person (though I suppose his being completely insufferable is what brought me to SF and away from AAAC for good, so maybe I should thank him).

2. Re: the whole NYR-Foo thing -
NYR chose to pontificate on that which he does not have the data/experience to pontificate and, at the same time, threw out a few truisms (redundant) because saying stuff like that probably makes his students think he's smart.

Foo attacked him on both counts, and rightfully so. And no, it wasn't a class thing. Foo mocked him with the "I'd still be cool with it" comment because NYR is really pretty crass in many of his posts, especially the one to which Foo was replying. If NYR can't write without profanity, slang, and colloquialisms, I don't think there's a problem with Foo pointing it out.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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You can backtrack all you like, but there is no framework that would make any sense of this lunatic post that isn't built on ugly racial assumptions.
I think he was referring to your "And yes, to speak in your parlance, I was "cool with it."" line, which was a little twat-like for a guy with a pretty ordinary education, job, age, background, etc (the "your parlance" part I mean). But it was overall a minor offense/slip-up that should not have escalated into that back-and-forth.

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrockett

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Foo attacked him on both counts, and rightfully so. And no, it wasn't a class thing. Foo mocked him with the "I'd still be cool with it" comment because NYR is really pretty crass in many of his posts, especially the one to which Foo was replying. If NYR can't write without profanity, slang, and colloquialisms, I don't think there's a problem with Foo pointing it out.
I don't know if he's crass or anything, but it's irritating when NYR (and certain others like Edmorel) imply that it's arrogant, snotty, or classist to expect a certain standard of service from sellers. Similar issues came up in a thread about CEGO a while back.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Here are some pics.

First, these are Ercole:

Manton, those trousers look really nice on you. Ercole's did a great job.

never fails to deliver unlike his pants maker.

I find amusing the # of posters who imagine a bespoke shirt should be without any wrinkles whatsoever.

wtf, manton looks great. people need to get off his dick...

Originally Posted by Teger

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wtf, manton looks great. people need to get off his dick...

Manton looks great and the shirt does actually fit well.
That collar looks like it's from Nordstrom, though.

I am always shocked to see how quickly people leap to diagnosing a problem with a clothing item from a single static picture which might not account for any number of factors.

http://books.google.com/books?id=9H0...op)%22&f=false

The book's $13. Coffin's probably wrong as often as he's right, but he's got it there.

What I don't understand is how someone could spend so much money on shirts, and yet react with such hostility to critical examinations of fine shirts. Is it just enough for you to know that the shirt was expensive?

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrockett

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2. Re: the whole NYR-Foo thing -
NYR chose to pontificate on that which he does not have the data/experience to pontificate and, at the same time, threw out a few truisms (redundant) because saying stuff like that probably makes his students think he's smart.

Foo attacked him on both counts, and rightfully so. And no, it wasn't a class thing. Foo mocked him with the "I'd still be cool with it" comment because NYR is really pretty crass in many of his posts, especially the one to which Foo was replying. If NYR can't write without profanity, slang, and colloquialisms, I don't think there's a problem with Foo pointing it out.

So I do not have the data or experience to speak about an issue but Matt does? Because he goes to a more expensive tailor? What world do you live in that you saw my challenge of Matt's assertion as crass. If you had half a brain you'd realize that both of us are right and wrong. He's never experienced Ercole, and I've never experienced Ambrosi. You must be fun to hang out with. The bolded part was just highlighted because it was a dick comment, and totally unneeded. Sorry if that was too crass for you.

Originally Posted by sellahi22

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I don't know if he's crass or anything, but it's irritating when NYR (and certain others like Edmorel) imply that it's arrogant, snotty, or classist to expect a certain standard of service from sellers. Similar issues came up in a thread about CEGO a while back.

Is there a different thread that I'm missing here? I never said to give Sal a break re: wait times for his pants. If these guys paid, and were promised a product by a certain time, they should have it, or get their money back, or both. My only real argument was that Matt said that Ambrosi is the only pant maker with as much handwork. What particularly irked me about this comment was that he scoffed at me when I told him Ercoles jackets were almost entirely done by hand. He suggested that it was impossible as his Rubinacci's don't have that much hand stitching and they are 5K a sportcoat.

What gets me is that we're basically arguing a moot point, as Matt pointed out, its just a matter of appreciating the craftsmanship. But everyone needs to take sides right?