Bespoke/MTM in NYC

Originally Posted by forex

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Has anyone mentioned Martin Greenfield? I have suits from Greenfield under Brooks and they are nicely made.

Greenfield is a great chioce, but you need an introduction. Wink, wink.

Carl is right. Greenfield is in an industrial area bordering on a housing project. Not exactly the best part of town. You may elect cab or car service. But you'll only need one fitting.

Originally Posted by bcjohn

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Mark: Excellent thread. Do you have any thoughts regarding purchasing MTM suits or sport coats in the price range referenced in your thread as opposed to buying a "quality" OTR suit/sport coat in the same price range? My bespoke/MTM purchases have not turned out the way I had hoped. Simply put, the resulting product never quite looks they way I thought it would. Part of the reason is probably because I am not paying top dollar for the product. However, with tuition payments, etc., I am not in a position to pay $4-5,000 for a top quality bespoke/MTM suit. (Even without tuition payments, etc., I am not sure I would pay that much for a suit.) A 42 reg OTR suit fits me quite well. With this in mind, would I get a better fit from a quality OTR suit as opposed to paying the same amount for a bespoke/MTM suit from you list of 9 or so tailors/stores. Thanks.


If OTR fits you, then go with it.

With OTR you know immediately if it is right. With MTM and bespoke you take a chance. Some men are very lucky and can fit well in OTR. I envy them.

You can get an excellent fit from an OTR suit as long as your body type fits into the manufacturer's model. Find a manufacturer and model that works for you. Cross your fingers that the manufacturer or store does not either change or drop the model.

Will you get a better fit from MTM or bespoke? Probably. But the improvements may only be marginally better from your viewpoint. Also, the incremental improvements may not be worth the extra expense from your vantage point.

I have OTR, MTM, and bespoke in my closet. All work for me. In fact, I love snagging an OTR on sale at the Oxxford Store.

P.S. Don't apologize for not being able to drop $5,000 for a suit. 99.9% of this forum cannot! With the danger of being excommunicated from here, there are things more important than clothes.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by PaoloM

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Actually at Paul Stuart MTM it's possible to get the price bellow $2,000. We've had it happen a few times.

Under the MTM Department's new stewardship of Mark Rykken, former owner of Alan Flusser Custom, you should get an excellent MTM from Samuelsohn at the high end of the original poster's price range.

A couple of more thoughts:

1. Hickey Freeman is priced at your range. They make an excellent product which two clothier friends have categorized as the "best value" in luxury clothing. Under Mike Cohen's leadership there should be some interesting things happening. It is available at its company owned store on Madison, the major stores (e.g., Barneys and Saks), and independent mens stores (Peter Elliot and H. Herzfeld). However, it is basically a machine made garment.

2. Tom James. They offer MTM clothes at all price ranges and levels of manufacture, from the entry level careerist ($850) to the CEO ($4,000+). They will visit you at your office or home. They offer a reasonable value in that the affiliate companies manufacture the suits and shirts. Even the suit cloths (Holland & Sherry) are from an affiliate. But don't expect bargain prices; you are paying a fair price for service and quality. I have known some heavy hitters who have been Tom James customers. If you take a stab at Tom James, go to the manager, Sherry Leitz, and ask that either she help you or one of her best salesmen.

3. J. Lucas Clothiers. It is a mini Tom James. They make clothes for businessmen, and they have a showroom at Madison Avenue. They also do office/home visits. They can make excellent clothes within your price range. E.g., Martin Greenfield suits. Call Harris Reiss at 646-431-9342. I can recommend Harris.


My personal recommendations:

1. LS Mens Clothes. Excellent suits. Excellent pants maker. Izzy, the owner, is a good and honest guy.

2. Cego. Excellent shirts available at two level of manufacture and two price ranges. Carl is a great guy.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

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MTM is a totally acceptable and reliable product.

Also, don't get fixated on multiple fittings. Generally, a MTM can only be tweaked and altered. If it is not essentially right "out of the box" there is little that can be done on multiple fittings. Incidentally, my London tailor does one fitting, the basted try-on. Nothing else is required from a master.

There are degrees of reliability.

If your London tailor is any good, he'll do what it takes to get things right--so long as you're not at fault. Ostensibly, that commitment is priced into whatever you're paying him. In contrast, as you point out, only minor alterations can be expected with MTM. This has to do with how and why MTM is done in the first place.

So, assuming that rates of error are equal between the two, MTM is going to be less reliable.

Originally Posted by Shirtmaven

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did you not read any of my posts?
i found him several tailors that fit his criteria?

Mark Seitelman did a very nice job of giving him a little more information?

You and Mark told him where to get MTM in New York. I'm telling him why it's a different process from bespoke and less likely to meet his expectations.

This is quite a useful thread.

In terms of Mr Ned, I've heard that his house style is a bit boxy. I'm looking for a suit closer to a British military cut, i.e. Huntsman (though slightly less severe shoulders than Huntsman). Is Mr Ned likely to be able to do this?

Originally Posted by aravenel

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This is quite a useful thread.

In terms of Mr Ned, I've heard that his house style is a bit boxy. I'm looking for a suit closer to a British military cut, i.e. Huntsman (though slightly less severe shoulders than Huntsman). Is Mr Ned likely to be able to do this?

I have heard the same and would avoid asking a tailor to change his house style.

Originally Posted by taxgenius

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I have heard the same and would avoid asking a tailor to change his house style.

Yeah... Chorse123 seems to have had some success with a slimmer cut with him, but it does make me bit uneasy.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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There are degrees of reliability.

* * *

So, assuming that rates of error are equal between the two, MTM is going to be less reliable.

* * *


If the rates of error are equal, how is MTM "less reliable"?

The original poster is evidently a young careerist. He just wants some nice clothes within his budget.

Originally Posted by Mark Seitelman

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If the rates of error are equal, how is MTM "less reliable"?

The original poster is evidently a young careerist. He just wants some nice clothes within his budget.

I should have been clearer: rates of initial error. What's a careerist?

I'd take what Mr. Seitelman says as the best info you can get. Rykken's always told me you're probably one of the most knowledge people about menswear outside the industry. After Flusser, Rykken probably knows the most about menswear than anybody in the industry, so that's quite a honor you got Mark

Mafoofan
i have seen disasters from a certain actor/boxer/tailor.
i have seen poor fitting clothing from a well regarded since retired older Italian tailor.

the terms bespoke vs mtm are seriously confusing. what Ned does is not a MTM garment it is a custom made suit. the term that was used when i started some 28 years ago.

if the person taking the measurements either off a garment that the customer is wearing or from a try on, who cares!!! except readers of the forums and other articles on clothing that do nothing but give out mis-information. these readers need to justify overpaying for a hyped up garment from someone who may or may not know what a half waist measurment is or when to add a chest dart.

price is then determined by fabric, workmanship, cost of the showroom, and what the tailor/salesmen thinks they can charge.

years ago, when i made suits. i worked with a european program that required me to purchase a few try on suits.
it was a half canvas, mostly machine made suit. I usually delivered a well fitting suit. but if Iwas off, i had very little room for alteration.
but the price was great.
I did not try to give this suit a fancy name. It was a custom made suit.

the op wanted a suit at a specific price point. he was given numerous choices. why did you feel the need to bring in the stupid bespoke vs mtm argument?

I must make a correction as to a prior statement about Saint Laurie. I had an opportunity to communicate with Andrew Kozinn, the owner.

Its workshop is on its premises.. This was not the case when it was located on Park Avenue, and the workshop was off-premises.

I apologize for the misinformation.

Originally Posted by Shirtmaven

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price is then determined by fabric, workmanship, cost of the showroom, and what the tailor/salesmen thinks they can charge.

^ This is great . . .

I would add that for a customer price is justified by achieving what the maker says he/she can achieve for the client, the whole of the end product, material, workmanship, travel time and energy involved - in that order.

After all is said and done, it is the private experience of the customer with the product that really determines whether the price was worth it, or not.

- M

Has anyone had experience with Louis Purple MTM?

There is a small store on Lafayette St., north of Houston.