Tour de France 2009 Thread

the thing that Lance has going for him is a few body quirks that work in his favor. His heart is 33% larger than the average male his size (this is a stunning advantage in cycling), and I believe his muscles release lactic acid at a later stage than many others (though I forget the details about this).

Furthermore, its not like he was an "all of a sudden" cyclist. He was a world cham at an extremely young age before being struck with cancer, great TdF finishes were bound to happen anyways.

Never the less, I do have my suspicions, but I will assume innocent until proven guilty.

Originally Posted by edinatlanta

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Keep in mind he's been tested more than a dozen times since he returned to cycling
Indeed. As I said, there is no evidence, only suspicions: the 1999 affair, the alleged confession to medical staff. Flimsy at best. But other people have been tested all their carreers, never caught, and yet admitted they had doped afterwards. Even Ullrich, IIRC, was only caught thanks to a police inquiry, not through testing.

Originally Posted by Merckx

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Riis admitted to doping through the years 93-98, including his 96 TdF victory.
Precisely. He admitted after the fact, he never got caught. More recently, Fignon, the last French winner of TdF, also admitted he had doped for his two TdF victories.

Originally Posted by gomestar

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Furthermore, its not like he was an "all of a sudden" cyclist. He was a world cham at an extremely young age before being struck with cancer, great TdF finishes were bound to happen anyways.
This was not meant as a jab at Lance. I am more or less convinced he has doped, but then again I am more or les convinced they all do. So, in the end, he still won in a level playing field of all-doped champions.

Originally Posted by jaac

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Cadel's race is over for another year. Dammit, can't help but feel he will never get a Tour now. Astana were ridiculous in the TTT, hopefully some drama can be created between Contador and Lance but either way i don't see a non Astana member winning unless Cadel or Sastre pull some insane mountain stage bullshit.

It's early days yet - the mountains could change things big time - whilst neither Evan's (or Menchov's) start has been good they could still catch up. Schleck or Castre could breaktrough yet... I wouldn't be surprised to see an all Astana podium though - Leipheimer could be up there.

Originally Posted by ManofKent

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I wouldn't be surprised to see an all Astana podium though - Leipheimer could be up there.
Right now that is what looks most likely to me.

I'd love to see Leipheimer up there.

Its so early to call victory anything, the mountains can (and do) tear up the standings hill by hill.

Originally Posted by Étienne

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Indeed. As I said, there is no evidence, only suspicions: the 1999 affair, the alleged confession to medical staff. Flimsy at best. But other people have been tested all their carreers, never caught, and yet admitted they had doped afterwards. Even Ullrich, IIRC, was only caught thanks to a police inquiry, not through testing.


Precisely. He admitted after the fact, he never got caught. More recently, Fignon, the last French winner of TdF, also admitted he had doped for his two TdF victories.


This was not meant as a jab at Lance. I am more or less convinced he has doped, but then again I am more or les convinced they all do. So, in the end, he still won in a level playing field of all-doped champions.

I'm not going to get deeply into this, but please keep in mind, the testing had not caught up to the substances being used, until after Y2K. So to site the fact that people were using in the 1990s and not getting caught as any evidence that people are currently using and not getting caught, is someone specious. The substances haven't changed since then, but the testing certainly has.

I also find it hard to believe that Lance has not/is not using a banned substance, but I'm going to trust the science of testing at thist time, and give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. And let's face it, if there's anyone the French cycling authorities want to suss out, it's Lance.

Must be a few angry sprinters in the teams today. Voeckler could surely have been reeled in by the big teams?

Originally Posted by gomestar

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the thing that Lance has going for him is a few body quirks that work in his favor. His heart is 33% larger than the average male his size (this is a stunning advantage in cycling), and I believe his muscles release lactic acid at a later stage than many others (though I forget the details about this).


Can you post a link to this. I've heard a lot of people throw this around and I've never seen the basis for it.

Originally Posted by Stylish Pilot

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Can you post a link to this. I've heard a lot of people throw this around and I've never seen the basis for it.
it was a documentary on the Discovery Channel a few years ago, probably around the time they first started to sponsor the team. I might dig around a little, I'm interested in some of the facts too. edit: first thing that came up on a google search, see here

Originally Posted by gomestar

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the thing that Lance has going for him is a few body quirks that work in his favor. His heart is 33% larger than the average male his size (this is a stunning advantage in cycling), and I believe his muscles release lactic acid at a later stage than many others (though I forget the details about this).

Originally Posted by gomestar

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it was a documentary on the Discovery Channel a few years ago, probably around the time they first started to sponsor the team. I might dig around a little, I'm interested in some of the facts too.


edit: first thing that came up on a google search, see here

Speaking of physical quirks, Miguel Indurain had a phenomenal physique, too.
His resting heart rate was under 30 beats per minute, and he had an astonishingly quick recovery time, too - his heart rate would revert to its resting rate far more quickly than most others. His lung capacity was enormous and his heart could pump almost 50% more blood around his body than a normal person's would in the same time. An amazing person - very humble in real life - and a great cyclist. It would have been great to see what would have happened if he and Armstrong had been at the peak of their powers at the same time.

My favourite memory of the TdF was one of the first that I watched - perhaps in 1992. Big Mig was riding in a time trial stage around Luxembourg, and a camera crew were following him in a little VW. The driver was talking rapidly in French whilst the cameraman focussed on Indurain powering along a fairly flat section (perhaps with a slightly downhill gradient, but so slight it wasn't visible on the telecast). The camera then panned down to the car's speedometer and I understood why the driver was so excited - the speedo was pointing to 80km/hr (50mph) and Indurain barely seemed to be breaking a sweat, just reeling in the kilometres one after another.

I hope that Lance wins this one, for old time's sake, but as an Australian I'm barracking for Cadel Evans to stage a comeback and go one better than his previous, second placing.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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So to site the fact that people were using in the 1990s and not getting caught as any evidence that people are currently using and not getting caught, is someone specious.
Then you just have to move to more recent examples. For example, Ullrich aced all his testings in 2003-2006, yet we know (thanks to a police inquiry, not testing) that he was doping.

Originally Posted by Étienne

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Then you just have to move to more recent examples. For example, Ullrich aced all his testings in 2003-2006, yet we know (thanks to a police inquiry, not testing) that he was doping.

I'm not familiar with the details here. And really, I don't want to be. The sport is obviously dirty, and it makes sense Lance is using. However, he's such a target, and we both know many French would love to topple him, I think if he was bustable, he'd have been busted. He's not stupid, so I just can't imagine him coming into this Tour dirty.

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I'm not familiar with the details here. And really, I don't want to be. The sport is obviously dirty, and it makes sense Lance is using. However, he's such a target, and we both know many French would love to topple him, I think if he was bustable, he'd have been busted. He's not stupid, so I just can't imagine him coming into this Tour dirty.

Time will tell.

yeah that's the thing, the French and WADA people like Dick Pound (hint: don't google that) are just salivating to bust him. If there was anything odd about any of his tests, and I mean anything, they'd be all over it. Floyd Landis just made the whole situation worse, but seriously WTF was he thinking???

Originally Posted by Étienne

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More recently, Fignon, the last French winner of TdF, also admitted he had doped for his two TdF victories.

Hinault was the last French winner in '85. Fignon won in '82 and '83. What did Fignon admit to taking back then?