Weights, cutting, and muscle maintainance

[drizzt3117]

So I'm going against the calendar and doing some cutting towards the New Year (I have my reasons, and they're relatively esoteric so I will spare you guys) and I've pretty much been doing so since May or so. So far my results have been pretty good. I started May at about 239 and about 16-17% bf and am currently at 213 and about 12% bf. I don't think I've lost a lot of muscle given measurements and strength but I'm sure there's been some catabolism there. Anyways, my current workout/diet/exercise is as follows. I wouldn't say I've hit a wall, but my decreases have slowed to the point where I'm wondering if I should reevaulate my regimen and welcome critiques. My current weight routine is such that I lift every other day, with 3.5 lifting days a week total. I alternate between 3 x 10 and 5 x 5 every two weeks in order to change things up, with about 20% more weight on the 5x5. The weight that I am lifting is significantly less than my max for every lift. My split is: Chest: Barbell Bench Press @ 225 (3 x 10) and 275 (5 x 5) Dumbbell Bench Press @ 85 (3 x 10) and 100 (5 x 5) Dumbbell Incline Bench Press @ 75 (3 x 10) and 90 (5 x 5) Barbell Decline Bench Press @ 225 (3 x 10) and 275 (5 x 5) Cable Crossover @ 60 (3 x 10) and 80 (5 x 5) Arms: Weighted Dips 5 x 5 or 3 x 10 w/ 45 lb weight Weighted Pullups 5 x 5 or 3 x 10 w/ 45 lb weight Seated Dumbbell Curl @ 55 (3 x 10) and 65 (5 x 5) Barbell Skullcrusher @ 90 (3 x 10) or 110 (5 x 5) w/ EZ curl bar Machine Dips @ 225 (3 x 10) or 275 (5 x 5) Standing Barbell Curl @ 100 (3 x 10) or 120 (5 x 5) w/ EZ curl bar Tricep Pushdown w/ Rope in Cage @ 150 (3 x 10) or 200 (5 x 5) Tricep Extension w/ Rope in Cage @ 150 (3 x 10) or 200 (5 x 5) Bicep Curl in Cage @ 50 per arm (3 x 10) or 75 (5 x 5) Shoulders/Back/Legs Dumbbell Military Press @ 80 (3 x 10) or 100 (5 x 5) Weighted Pullups 5 x 5 or 3 x 10 w/ 45 lb weight Dumbbell Lateral Raise @ 40 (3 x 10) or 55 (5 x 5) Plate loaded Shrug Machine @ 320 (3 x 10) or 410 (5 x 5) Dumbbell Bent over Row @ 75 (3 x 10) or 100 (5 x 5) Barbell Squat @ 225 (3 x 10 or 5 x 5) Barbell Deadlift @ 225 (3 x 10 or 5 x 5) Calf Raise @ 225 (3 x 10 or 5 x 5) after squats. I also do 25 minutes of high intensity elliptical each morning and evening except on mornings or nights where I lift (about 8 mph) Diet has been: 7:30 AM Morning Drink (1 scoop Cellmass + 1 scoop Superpump 250 + 16 oz Orange Juice) taken after fasted cardio, with 1 cap flaxseed oil and 1 cap fish oil. 9:00 AM Protein Shake (2 scoops Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard with 16 oz lactose free skim milk), 2 Venom Hyperdrive 11:30 AM 1 chicken breast with green vegetables of some type 2 PM 1 chicken breast with green vegetables of some type 5 PM Dinner (normal meal, about 600-800 calories, high protein, some whole grains) 7 PM pre-workout drink (1 scoop Cellmass + 1 scoop Superpump 250 with 16 oz Orange Juice) 7:30 PM workout (workout drink, 1 scoop SizeOn in water) 9:00 PM post-workout protein shake 11:30 PM evening protein shake before bed with 1 cap flaxseed, 1 cap fish oil, 1 multivitamin. I take SizeOn on non-lifting days before bed. Any critiques would be appreciated. My total caloric deficit as calculated appears to be about 500 per day, and my diet is about 50:35:15 P/C/F at this point. PS: My leg lifts are light for a reason and I'm doing elliptical for a reason. I have knee and ankle problems and don't want to lift more weight than that even though I can easily do so.

 

[lance konami]

You apparently are one strong mofo. I personally would like to see some footage of you doing weighted pullups with a 45 pound plate for reps of 10. You going all the way down? All the way up?

If you're cutting, I don't understand why you're lifting so much. The way I understood cutting is, the only point of weightlifting is to maintain your metabolic rate and maintain muscle, and it doesn't really take much to do that. It doesn't seem like you're doing enough real cardio. The eliptical is simply not intense enough, in my opinion, but it is still good to incorporate into a routine. I'd replace that with running, and maybe some sprinting. But you mention you have ankle problems, so that may be an issue.

The other thing I'd change, is replace your very first shake in the morning with a real breakfast. Especially after fasted cardio. I don't know how the hell you can even walk after consuming only a shake after fasted cardio. You need solid food first thing in the morning to give your metabolism a boost. You're also drinking 6 freaking protein drinks per day? Why? Shakes should really be used as a convenience, not so many meal substitutes. It looks like you're only having 3 actual solid food meals, and you gotta remember that solid food alone will help burn calories from the thermic effect.

I don't understand how you have the energy to do all this work man.

 

[gdl203]

and I don't understand how you can eat so much chicken breast !

 

[adversity04]

If you're cutting, I don't understand why you're lifting so much. The way I understood cutting is, the only point of weightlifting is to maintain your metabolic rate and maintain muscle, and it doesn't really take much to do that

You can still maintain or increase strength while cutting, you just have to eat enough protein to repair, but not consume too much. It's a fine line to balance.

Agree with lance on the more real meals even if it means turning your shake into a fruit smoothie with yogurt and some oatmeal or something like that. You also might have hit your maintenance calorie mark so that could be stunting it.

Also, why not just completely mess with your body to get it ramped up. IIRC you've been doing a lot in the way of the same exercises ever since I started reading the boards last fall. Change it up, do some tabata sessions with pushups, pullups and dips. If you can try doing some thrusters (squat combined with shoulder press) and some sumo deadlift high pulls. Jump rope, hop on a rower instead of the elliptical, bike, etc. You have bad knees and ankles, but I don't think that should limit the change in exercises. Do something different for 4 weeks and reevaluate. If it's working continue with it or switch back. As I'm sure you know, the body adapts to a stale regiment, change it up and it'll go back to work.

 

[lance konami]

Originally Posted by adversity04

You can still maintain or increase strength while cutting, you just have to eat enough protein to repair, but not consume too much. It's a fine line to balance.

Agree with lance on the more real meals even if it means turning your shake into a fruit smoothie with yogurt and some oatmeal or something like that. You also might have hit your maintenance calorie mark so that could be stunting it.

Also, why not just completely mess with your body to get it ramped up. IIRC you've been doing a lot in the way of the same exercises ever since I started reading the boards last fall. Change it up, do some tabata sessions with pushups, pullups and dips. If you can try doing some thrusters (squat combined with shoulder press) and some sumo deadlift high pulls. Jump rope, hop on a rower instead of the elliptical, bike, etc. You have bad knees and ankles, but I don't think that should limit the change in exercises. Do something different for 4 weeks and reevaluate. If it's working continue with it or switch back. As I'm sure you know, the body adapts to a stale regiment, change it up and it'll go back to work.

Very true. The rower is awesome too for fat loss, the only problem is doing it for a long time. I usually divide up some sessions with the elliptical to start, then move to the rower.

 

[whacked]

Y'all, meet drizzt3117, SF's residential BB aficionado.

Although, judging from his impressive knowledge of fine dining, I'd think the posted diet, and probably the routine as well, is not something he follows to a T.

 

[drizzt3117]

Good suggestions.

I've never really thought about the weighted pullups as being hard. Doing them at 210 ish with a 45 lb weight isn't much different than doing them w/o weight at 240, and I'm probably about the same level of strength.

lance, I have two drinks in the morning, one orange juice and one protein, I've never had a problem having enough energy for the day with that. I take two protein shakes on non-lifting days and three on lifting days.

gdl,

two chicken breasts a day is a lot?

As far as elliptical vs other machines, here's the thing. I have an elliptical at my house so that's the easiest for me to use. I have a treadmill too, and used to do HIIT on that in the mornings and evenings, but the impact was leaving me with really sore ankles and knees and I didn't want to hurt myself continuing to do that. I don't have those kind of problems if I run on grass or on a track, but that's a lot of time investment that I can't afford atm. The idea of a rowing machine is a good one, and something I'll definitely consider.

My caloric breakdown seems to be something like the following:

Morning Drink: 160 calories
Protein Shake 1: 320 calories
Lunch 1: 300 calories
Lunch 2: 300 calories
Dinner: 800 calories
Drink 2: 160 calories
Shake 2: 320 calories
Shake 3: 320 calories

Total (workout days): 2680 calories

Caloric consumption:

BMR w/ activity factor: 2400 calories
Cardio: 450 calories
Lifting: 300 calories
Total: 3150 calories

Non-lifting days:


Morning Drink: 160 calories
Protein Shake 1: 320 calories
Lunch 1: 350 calories
Lunch 2: 350 calories
Dinner: 800 calories
Shake 2: 320 calories

Total: 2300 calories

BMR with activity factor: 2400 calories
Cardio: 900 calories
Total: 3300 calories

So, I'm in deficit by approximately 1000 calories during non-lifting days and 500 on lifting, by my calculations.

 

[gdl203]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

two chicken breasts a day is a lot?
Every day? I would go nuts

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by whacked

Y'all, meet drizzt3117, SF's residential BB aficionado.

Although, judging from his impressive knowledge of fine dining, I'd think the posted diet, and probably the routine as well, is not something he follows to a T.

Heh, my diet has been pretty consistent in calories, if varied in composition, of late. I've pretty much scheduled most of my meetings for dinners, mostly eat some sort of fish, and have cut out alcohol and desserts almost completely, although I will have red meat at times. I would say that I probably eat fish/poultry 6 of 7 days of the week now. I've been pretty consistent in my lifting and cardio too, actually. I've traveled twice for business in the past three months and both times I found gyms to work out at near my hotels.

 

[adversity04]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

So, I'm in deficit by approximately 1000 calories during non-lifting days and 500 on lifting, by my calculations.

Maybe eat a little more on the non-lifting days. I'm not sure on the science behind the starvation fat gain, but your metabolism might not be as ramped up on the non-lifting days due to that deficit. I'm actually trying to gain right now or else I'd mess with it so in the interim you can be our guinea pig

 

[Viktri]

dritzz, try to mix up your routine - eating/weights/cardio. suggestion: 1 day a week go +500 cals on 1 day for a month (or go more extreme) (splurge) weights; Example using benchpress: you look like you can lift more than 225 warmup if you use the incremental method. Try 1x10 225, 1x10 235, 1x10 235 and finish with yout 5x5 275. Mix up your routine a bit

 

[lefty]

Wildy imbalanced WO, but that's your thing.

You probably need a change, so check out Martin's IF blog here.

Then go read Lyle's site and the IF threads here. You may have to sign up to read.

Good luck.

lefty

 

[SuitingStyle]

I find it odd to try to cut down and take creatine @ the same time. I usually take creatine to bulk up/increase poundage for a month or so, then stop and loose a bit of water weight and fat.

Also, no egg whites or tuna fish?

Speaking of cutting, my boy just lost 30 lbs and got shreadded for an amurture body building competition (all nature for him, some other kids juiced) for our fraternity @ college I graduated from. Looked sick, so I am motivated @ the moment to get cut as well.

PS. on a unrealted note, you like Cell Mass+Superpump combo rather than the Cell Mass + NO Explode combo? How is Cell Mass working for you, better than other creatines, say TRAC?

 

[odoreater]

Seems to me like you're not eating enough solid foods and drinking way too many protein shakes and workout drinks. You only eat solid foods between 11 a.m. and 5:00 p.m. Throw in things like lowfat cottage cheese or egg whites instead of one of the protein shakes.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by SuitingStyle

I find it odd to try to cut down and take creatine @ the same time. I usually take creatine to bulk up/increase poundage for a month or so, then stop and loose a bit of water weight and fat.

I'm taking creatine to maintain muscle...

Also, no egg whites or tuna fish?

Yeah, I eat tuna sometimes instead of chicken for lunches.

PS. on a unrealted note, you like Cell Mass+Superpump combo rather than the Cell Mass + NO Explode combo? How is Cell Mass working for you, better than other creatines, say TRAC?

I think Cell Mass is nice, the only problem with it is that it doesn't dissolve that well. I think I like Size-On more, although it doesn't taste anywhere near as well. I think Superpump is much better than NOxplode, it feels more potent to me, and I think I get better results from a monohydrate based formula than CEE (although I do retain more water). I haven't been on SizeOn that long, but I think the glucanoate is pretty effective.