Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[The Chai]

what about serge? is it all bs?

So cav twills I think have double twill which is quite prominent. Serge I think is a 2x2 even faced twill which has diagonal ridges on both sides

 

[classicalthunde]

I had a similar question when asking about serge for a classic blazer fabric a while ago, I think @dieworkwear chimed in and noted that it has to do with the technical aspects of the weave, but that they are all essentially variously textured twills

 

[The Chai]

Ditto^^ they are all variants of twill weaves, some more pronounced, some more smooth...but essentially twills. There's venetian twills, herringbone (technically a twill i think) and baratheas (whichs is a hopsack twill)

 

[classicalthunde]

I recently recieved a swatch of Holland and Sherry Cape Horn Classics serge and a H&S Darkota Whipchord and it is definitely more textured than my navy twill VBC suit.

I don't know anything about the technical aspects of fabric (warp and weft or X x Y weaves) but from an aesthetic perspective it seems that twill is the least textured, serge is medium, whipchord is medium-high, and calvary twill is high

I'll see if i can snag an up close comparison photo this weekend

 

[The Chai]

Then there are even faced twills and warped faced twills...all the twills u stated above fall in the latter category

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I've never seen a barathea that looks like a twill. I'v only seen plainweave/hopsack.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

Who was that guy years ago that made a huge stink about a guy getting a suit in navy hopsack? He said that hopsack was for garbage men and to get it in navy was some kind of heresy? Was probably Film Noir Buff, but I could be wrong.

 

[DavidLane]

curious to hear where twill fits into the spectrum...

Twill can be both warm and cool wearing. If it is a brushed finish twill, think flannel shirt, it will wear warm. If it is a hard finish twill, think cavalry/whipcord twill it will wear cooler. This is also subject to the tightness of the weave and weight.

DL-

 

[The Chai]

I've never seen a barathea that looks like a twill. I'v only seen plainweave/hopsack.

yeah, but barathea is techically a hopsack twill

 

[The Chai]

Who was that guy years ago that made a huge stink about a guy getting a suit in navy hopsack? He said that hopsack was for garbage men and to get it in navy was some kind of heresy? Was probably Film Noir Buff, but I could be wrong.

its filmnoirbuff...he said it makes u look like a sanitation worker

 

[The Chai]

I recently recieved a swatch of Holland and Sherry Cape Horn Classics serge and a H&S Darkota Whipchord and it is definitely more textured than my navy twill VBC suit.

I don't know anything about the technical aspects of fabric (warp and weft or X x Y weaves) but from an aesthetic perspective it seems that twill is the least textured, serge is medium, whipchord is medium-high, and calvary twill is high

I'll see if i can snag an up close comparison photo this weekend

Ditto on this...I personally would put serge above whipcord and cavalry twill has wider spaced twills

 

[classicalthunde]

Twill can be both warm and cool wearing. If it is a brushed finish twill, think flannel shirt, it will wear warm. If it is a hard finish twill, think cavalry/whipcord twill it will wear cooler. This is also subject to the tightness of the weave and weight.

DL-

Thanks, I recently commissioned a 370g twill suit (definitely hard finish) wanting to try something a bit heavier for the drape and longevity and was actually surprised at how light it was when i tried it on at the basted fitting, i was definitely imaging something with a bit more heft. I was originally planning on it being a fall through spring suit, but its good to hear that it will wear cool...I think i could probably use it on all but the hottest of summer days in the greater Northeast

 

[classicalthunde]

Ditto on this...I personally would put serge above whipcord and cavalry twill has wider spaced twills

I dunno if the Cape Horn Classics is technically a serge or just serge-like... @Despos provided it as a recommendation a while ago for a blazer and provided this pic, which is pretty representative of the sample i got.

 

[bdavro23]

Who was that guy years ago that made a huge stink about a guy getting a suit in navy hopsack? He said that hopsack was for garbage men and to get it in navy was some kind of heresy? Was probably Film Noir Buff, but I could be wrong.

I remember that vaguely, owing only to the garbage man reference. I have still yet to see a garbage man in a hopsack suit, though I am not in NYC or another major market...

 

[Despos]

serge is woven using a worsted warp and a woollen weft. Creates the distinct texture.

A "Prunelle weave" gives cloth a twill appearance but isn't a twill.

Slight variations of weaving and yarn structure define the differences.
Hopsack is a plain weave, difference is that it is two yarns woven over two yarns. Plan weave is one over one.