The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Ambulance Chaser]

I love the Cartier Drive Extra Flat. (The other Drive models are a bit too busy for my taste.) It's showy for a time-only dress watch, but if you own a Cartier you probably want other people to notice it.

 

[Scuppers]

So, I feel like the denizens of this board typically steer clear of the indies - and I think it is often for good reason (servicing, being chief among them). However, if you were to dabble with the indies, who would you dabble with?

Obviously, Dufour is chief among the indies - but given the impossibility of getting a Dufour, it's not even worth a mention.

I am particularly fascinated by the time-only, or minimal complication watch. I really do not use complications, and I find it interesting to see what one can do with something so simple. Honestly, it is something of a shame (in my view) that high end manufacturers do not have "higher-end" time-only, or minimal complication watches. Lange is an exception, with the fusee-and-chain in the Richard Lange. But with Patek, for example, an increase in price = an increase in complication - up until the minute repeater, of course.

This, I think, is where the indies shine.

For me, I've always loved Kari - when I first started looking at watches, he was just starting to gain some serious notoriety. And I find his timepieces so incredibly charming. I know they are not to everyone's taste stylistically, but I find them incredibly romantic/poetic.

View attachment 1732908

I also find the RRCC achingly beautiful. The hands are nothing short of perfection, and the dial layout is just fascinating. Also, I love that the cases are made by Hagmann. The use of Hagmann's cases, to me, just makes the RRCC that much more desirable.

View attachment 1732909

Very much a Kari fan-boy. A sizeable part of the appeal is the uniqueness that is often found in his work. There are many superlatives and descriptors one could use, but you only need to look at the work to appreciate It.
RRCC:
A much under valued Indy is Andreas Strehler, imo. Most certainly a future purchase. I appreciate the casing is rather polarising, but i see beyond that. With Journe, Halter and Prescher, I’d say he is one of the 20th/21st centuries most important forces in horological science. (Of course GD and PD are there, just was.not mentioning the bloody obvious!)

 

[Texasmade]

Why is the RO sitting in the box in your closet?

I stopped wearing it. Right now my Speedmasters (Snoopy and FOIS) and Tank Americain get all of my wrist time. Occasionally I'll throw in my Seamaster.

 

[Journeyman]

But the critical difference is the level of demand, not the supply model. In fact, Cartier’s supply model is even more restrictive. By enforcing a time limit on ordering, they are explicitly creating an artificial limit on supply. There is no forced time limit on ordering the other watches mentioned, nor are they limited editions.

If and when demand reaches real hype levels, you will have the same or worse problem getting the Cartier you want.

I think that the two of you are talking about slightly different things.

You're talking about non-limited-edition watches that are hard to get because of high demand (ie Daytona, Nautilus, AP RO).

However, if I understand @classicalthunde correctly, he is talking about limited-edition watches that sell out rapidly because the manufacturer only produces a few hundred pieces, as opposed to Cartier's practice of producing an unlimited number of watches for a limited amount of time. So he is comparing the practice of numerically-limited watches (50, 150, 600) to Cartier's practice of time-limited watches (say, 12 months). It seems that, regardless of how many people order the model in that 12-month-period, Cartier will make them a watch, although they may have to wait a while to get it.

Therefore, when comparing numerically-limited editions to time-limited editions, it's much easier to purchase a Cartier Tank with a blue dial, say, compared to a VC Overseas "Everest" where only 150 models were produced.

Re Cartier, someone told me (and I have no idea if it's true) that the Ballon is their best selling model, despite it being completely off the radar of "enthusiasts". This might be supported by the fact that there are considerably more Ballon variations (125) than Tank variations (83).

Rather like the Omega Constellation.

For enthusiasts, Speedy Pros and Seamasters are the collectible models in Omega's range. However, despite being almost totally ignored by enthusiasts/collectors, the modern Constellation range is Omega's biggest seller and has been for a couple of decades, for two main reasons - it's really popular in Asia, and it's popular amongst women.

 

[smittycl]

I stopped wearing it. Right now my Speedmasters (Snoopy and FOIS) and Tank Americain get all of my wrist time. Occasionally I'll throw in my Seamaster.

I never saw the appeal of the Royal Oak. The screws look silly and it's just a chunky dude watch. Kind of screams wealthy frat boy. Um, ahem, anyway, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

 

[am55]

So, I feel like the denizens of this board typically steer clear of the indies - and I think it is often for good reason (servicing, being chief among them). However, if you were to dabble with the indies, who would you dabble with?

Obviously, Dufour is chief among the indies - but given the impossibility of getting a Dufour, it's not even worth a mention.

I am particularly fascinated by the time-only, or minimal complication watch. I really do not use complications, and I find it interesting to see what one can do with something so simple. Honestly, it is something of a shame (in my view) that high end manufacturers do not have "higher-end" time-only, or minimal complication watches. Lange is an exception, with the fusee-and-chain in the Richard Lange. But with Patek, for example, an increase in price = an increase in complication - up until the minute repeater, of course.

This, I think, is where the indies shine.

For me, I've always loved Kari - when I first started looking at watches, he was just starting to gain some serious notoriety. And I find his timepieces so incredibly charming. I know they are not to everyone's taste stylistically, but I find them incredibly romantic/poetic.

View attachment 1732908

I also find the RRCC achingly beautiful. The hands are nothing short of perfection, and the dial layout is just fascinating. Also, I love that the cases are made by Hagmann. The use of Hagmann's cases, to me, just makes the RRCC that much more desirable.

View attachment 1732909

Pascal Coyon:

Some of the crazier stuff by Qin Gan:

Asaoka, but the bespoke stuff:

Jean-Baptiste Viot:

None of these, maybe Asaoka? will come Foo approved. I have a different vision, closer to how @Ebitdaddy has executed his recent project. The relationship between maker and customer, the chance to do something new - otherwise Breguet Classique 2 hand or a simple tank sans guilloche is enough.

Coyon would probably be top of the list, I like his unassuming and very Southern French style.

 

[RJman]

What do you guys think of Jean Daniel Nicolas?

 

[Newcomer]

What do you guys think of Jean Daniel Nicolas?

Have any pieces actually been delivered? The 2 minute tourb is pretty gorgeous.

 

[pmeis]

since we are talking cartier, I have to say that the finishing and quality of the skeleton santos feels flimsy and cheap. probably a great watch with quick switch bracelet for 7.5k but for 30k they really only have the skeletonized dial and that's it. I like the look of it but I hope they go up in value this year and then I might sell it. Compared to AP chrono that I own - night and day when comparing AP finishing and bracelet quality. not that anybody ever said they were comparable but still.

I think you're underselling the the work they've done with the movement a bit. It's pretty substantial, if not up to par finishing wise at least. I really love the ADLC version with the lumed bridges/dial, but this version is a maybe missing something. I like the bracelet a lot on my normal Santos, but I would expect something a bit nicer on a $30k piece, so I can certainly understand where you're coming from.

 

[classicalthunde]

back to the subject of purchasing vintage watches from reputable dealers - is it rude to make an offer below list price within reason (say 10-15%)? While not vintage per se, I've noticed some of the pricing at European Watch Co. is way above what my understanding of the market price is, even during this crazy hype cycle.

 

[Neville Southall]

back to the subject of purchasing vintage watches from reputable dealers - is it rude to make an offer below list price within reason (say 10-15%)? While not vintage per se, I've noticed some of the pricing at European Watch Co. is way above what my understanding of the market price is, even during this crazy hype cycle.

It’s never rude to make an offer.

 

[Neville Southall]

Snow day. Took this picture then rushed indoors because the pedestrian movement probably can’t stand the cold.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

back to the subject of purchasing vintage watches from reputable dealers - is it rude to make an offer below list price within reason (say 10-15%)? While not vintage per se, I've noticed some of the pricing at European Watch Co. is way above what my understanding of the market price is, even during this crazy hype cycle.

Based upon my experience with EWC, they are open to a request for a discount. I suspect they price their watches expecting negotiation. Just be prepared to walk away if the lowest price they offer isn't right.

 

[Newcomer]

Really interested in some of the smaller Japanese makers. Hard to find and seemingly only in 37mm and below, though.

View attachment 1732918 View attachment 1732919

I want to get a Kurono Tokyo at some point, and regret missing out on the one you have pictured.

Naoya Hida is cool - however, I struggle with the cost/benefit. The watches are really, really expensive for what you get (in my opinion). That said, the engraved dials are beautiful and they are a wonderful size. And I enjoyed Eric Ku's post about them on Hodinkee a while back.

hm how about grossman hamatic with the oldskool oscillating hammer

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View attachment 1732923

I think Grossman is awesome. However, I cannot get over the size. Most of the models are 42mm, IIRC. I wish they could offer something closer to the 37mm range.

I am middle-class for this thread, so I would go with Habring2. The watches offer great bang for the buck and are beautiful in their minimalism. I have heard they are really good to work with if you want to do a one-off. For something a little more avant garde, ochs und junior.

Great choices! I <3 Habring2, I think they offer tremendous value. And some of their watches, particularly the LEs, have been spectacular.

O&J is also really, really cool. Not exactly to my taste, but I appreciate the novelty and clever designs.

Very much a Kari fan-boy. A sizeable part of the appeal is the uniqueness that is often found in his work. There are many superlatives and descriptors one could use, but you only need to look at the work to appreciate It.
RRCC:
A much under valued Indy is Andreas Strehler, imo. Most certainly a future purchase. I appreciate the casing is rather polarising, but i see beyond that. With Journe, Halter and Prescher, I’d say he is one of the 20th/21st centuries most important forces in horological science. (Of course GD and PD are there, just was.not mentioning the bloody obvious!)

Obviously, I am a huge Kari fanboy as well. And RRCC, I cannot wait to see how his career progresses.

Strehler is one that I can respect deeply, but his watches are a bit too modern for my taste. I think the following two articles, posted on SJX's site, are very, very fascinating. It would be interesting to have a relationship with a watchmaker similar to that of my relationship with my tailor:

In-Depth: Commissioning a Custom Andreas Strehler Wristwatch | SJX Watches

A unique time zone creation.

watchesbysjx.com

In-Depth: Commissioning the Voutilainen GMT-Villes Custom Time Zone Watch | SJX Watches

Mastering the paradox of choice.

watchesbysjx.com

Pascal Coyon:

View attachment 1733129

View attachment 1733131

Some of the crazier stuff by Qin Gan:
View attachment 1733132

View attachment 1733133


Asaoka, but the bespoke stuff:

View attachment 1733138

View attachment 1733139

Jean-Baptiste Viot:

View attachment 1733140

None of these, maybe Asaoka? will come Foo approved. I have a different vision, closer to how @Ebitdaddy has executed his recent project. The relationship between maker and customer, the chance to do something new - otherwise Breguet Classique 2 hand or a simple tank sans guilloche is enough.

Coyon would probably be top of the list, I like his unassuming and very Southern French style.

I love the Coyon and the Asaoka. Coyon is particularly interesting to me - specifically, that the watches sit at the $6,000 mark is pretty fascinating.

 

[smittycl]

I want to get a Kurono Tokyo at some point, and regret missing out on the one you have pictured.

Naoya Hida is cool - however, I struggle with the cost/benefit. The watches are really, really expensive for what you get (in my opinion). That said, the engraved dials are beautiful and they are a wonderful size. And I enjoyed Eric Ku's post about them on Hodinkee a while back.



I think Grossman is awesome. However, I cannot get over the size. Most of the models are 42mm, IIRC. I wish they could offer something closer to the 37mm range.



Great choices! I <3 Habring2, I think they offer tremendous value. And some of their watches, particularly the LEs, have been spectacular.

O&J is also really, really cool. Not exactly to my taste, but I appreciate the novelty and clever designs.



Obviously, I am a huge Kari fanboy as well. And RRCC, I cannot wait to see how his career progresses.

Strehler is one that I can respect deeply, but his watches are a bit too modern for my taste. I think the following two articles, posted on SJX's site, are very, very fascinating. It would be interesting to have a relationship with a watchmaker similar to that of my relationship with my tailor:

In-Depth: Commissioning a Custom Andreas Strehler Wristwatch | SJX Watches

A unique time zone creation.

watchesbysjx.com

In-Depth: Commissioning the Voutilainen GMT-Villes Custom Time Zone Watch | SJX Watches

Mastering the paradox of choice.

watchesbysjx.com

I love the Coyon and the Asaoka. Coyon is particularly interesting to me - specifically, that the watches sit at the $6,000 mark is pretty fascinating.

Yeah, the price point for Naoya Hida is way too high. I was expecting around $5k not 3-4 x that price. I also saw the article on the salmon dial Kurono and it really spoke to me.