The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Dino944]

Does anyone have any experience with the Patek Golden Ellipse ref. 3738? I love the look but does it wear rather small? Sizing seems to be 31.1 x 35.6 mm.

Don't be off put by the numerical dimensions. Non-round watches often wear larger than their dimensions suggest. I tried on a 3738 several years ago and its a very handsome piece, that one rarely sees in the wild.

 

[dopey]



I know the type you are talking about. Yours is probably a reference 8440 980.006 or 980.021. As far as I can tell, the primary differences are the 980.006 had the crown at 3:00, a slightly thinner case, and 200m water resistance as opposed to 1000m (not that I would ever need more than about 1 meter). The reference 8440 was eventually also available in a few different dial configurations, as an automatic or a quartz, and even a analog/digital version. The 980.023 (mine) was sort of the predecessor to the 980.006 (yours) but I believe there were a few years where both were produced simultaneously. The 980.023 1000m version was discontinued in the early 1990s while the reference 8440 200m version lived on and eventually morphed into the Aquaracer and the Super Pro line of watches.

This was all back in the mid to late 1980s when Heuer and Tag were going through quite a bit of changes. I think the design for the original 980.023 was also licensed to a few other companies (Sinn, Doxa, Squale) including Auricoste which still produces a version today as their "Spirotechnique" and the 980.006 version was sort of stolen by Heuer's CFO when he left to go work at Zodiac.

Here's my Zodiac Professional "Red Dot" and my Tag Super Pro that both share some of the same lineage:

Thanks. I have great affection for mine as it has been through, and taken me through, a lot. It is also the easiest watch to wear as, I never, ever worry about reliability. No mechanical watch, no matter how tough the case, is as trustworthy.

 

[Belligero]



Belligero what's the difference? I must be missing something subtle about perhaps the catch because the links look the same to my untrained eye.

My next watch will I hope be a white face 116520 like yours on the right but I'm happy to be educated if they changed the bracelet at some point.

Like Dino said, the 116520 uses Rolex's current bracelet design with all-solid links and a machined clasp. It's also about 20 g heavier, which gives it a noticeably different feel on the wrist, as it makes the watch balance differently.

Just for the heck of it, I put the lighter stamped-clasp bracelet on the newer Daytona, and it of course works as well. Although the difference in mass isn't much, the bracelet and clasp feel weightless and they disappear on the wrist compared to the chunkier new version. It makes the newer watch wear exactly like an old-school one, and I have to say that I'm a bit tempted to get the lugs brushed and leave it on the light bracelet.

More likely, I'll be swapping them back in due course, as I feel that the lighter feel suits the older watch better — but first, I'm going to try another experiment and get my hands on a ceramic bezel to make what might be called a 16500LN.

image credit: lawnmowerman78 on TZ-UK

The bushed lugs, centred subdials with black rings, and slim hands/markers seem to combine well with the modern-style black bezel, and they offset some of its visual heaviness. Add the modern bracelet and you arguably get the best elements of the Zenith-era version and the latest one, though I still think the 16520 is unbeatable as-is.

If you're looking at 116520s, remember that early versions use the previous generation's skinny hands combined with fat markers, as well as a different clasp design, so there are indeed some differences. (They also switched from green to blue luminescent material for its last few years of production, not that it matters.) I had it in the white version at first, but soon swapped to black, which I prefer for that model.

I do still like the white dial in photos, but personally prefer the black dial for actually wearing.

And Dino, I'll let you know if that Submariner bracelet fits! While I doubt the lug holes will line up, it shouldn't be too difficult to find out.

 

[Thin White Duke]

Good info Dino and Mr. B - thanks.

I WAS aware of the skinny hands and find the fatter hands more readable so will be aiming for a more recent version for that reason.

 

[Belligero]

My pleasure; glad you found this stuff useful. One other thing to mention is that later models also have the fancy LIGA playless chronograph wheel (which is awesome, by the way), but it's also added to the earlier 4130 movements during service to bring them up to the latest spec.

image credit: horologer

There have also been other incremental improvements to the 4130 during production, but I don't know their details. When it comes to 116520s, I'd say the newer, the better — though they're all good.

I tried the Submariner bracelet today — no go:

The burly 2 mm spring bars on the diver's bracelet also have fatter ends that don't stay put in the Daytona case's smaller lug holes, so swapping them out to the correct 1.8 mm bars just makes the gap worse. I'll stick with the 78360 bracelet on 503 end links when I want to go all-brushed.

 

[Dino944]

Good info Dino and Mr. B - thanks.

I WAS aware of the skinny hands and find the fatter hands more readable so will be aiming for a more recent version for that reason.

You're welcome. I owned an early 116520, but sold it and bought the fat hands model when they started coming into the US. Yes, it its easier to read the time at a glance with the fat hands model, however the main reason I went from a thin hands model to a fat hands model was I never thought the thin hands hands looked appropriate on the 116520. To me it seemed very out of proportion to have the thin hands (as used on the 16520, which had thinner more elegant hour markers) with the new thicker/sportier hour markers of the 116520. The thick hands corrected this issue for me.

My pleasure; glad you found this stuff useful. One other thing to mention is that later models also have the fancy LIGA playless chronograph wheel (which is awesome, by the way), but it's also added to the earlier 4130 movements during service to bring them up to the latest spec.
image credit: horologer

There have also been other incremental improvements to the 4130 during production, but I don't know their details. When it comes to 116520s, I'd say the newer, the better — though they're all good.

I tried the Submariner bracelet today — no go:

The burly 2 mm spring bars on the diver's bracelet also have fatter ends that don't stay put in the Daytona case's smaller lug holes, so swapping them out to the correct 1.8 mm bars just makes the gap worse. I'll stick with the 78360 bracelet on 503 end links when I want to go all-brushed.

Nice to know when my 116520 goes in for service it will get the LIGA playless chronograph wheel.

Yes, I agree with the idea that newer the better with the 116520. Although considering when I bought mine the MSRP was half of what it was for the last of the 116520s...so I don't mind it not having all of the latest updates. For my purposes it works great and at that price it was like my Kermit was free and I still had $$$ left in my pocket.

Hey, thanks for trying out the Sub bracelet on the 116520. Its a shame it doesn't line up, but I guess we sort of expected that. Cheers!

 

[no frills]

@Dino944 + @Belligero = always stimulating, interesting discussions.

 

[Belligero]

^
Aw, thanks! Nice to hear from ya, Frilly.

Anything catching your eye lately, watch-wise?

 

[Steel28]

I didn't read past few pages but according to all the rumors we will see 42mm Anniversary SD (my AD is very postive) and Coke GMT.

Am I too late with these news? haha

 

[Dino944]

@Dino944 + @Belligero = always stimulating, interesting discussions.

Thanks @no frills

Looking forward to catching up with you soon!

 

[Belligero]



I didn't read past few pages but according to all the rumors we will see 42mm Anniversary SD (my AD is very postive) and Coke GMT.

Am I too late with these news? haha

We'll see.

I'm highly skeptical that we'll see either one of those, though. The SD and GMT have both recently been refreshed and still have plenty of legs.

My guess is that they'll fully put the bloated Datejust II out to pasture and introduce the somewhat more svelte 3235-movement update in full stainless.

 

[Steel28]



We'll see.

I'm highly skeptical that we'll see either one of those, though. The SD and GMT have both recently been refreshed and still have plenty of legs.

My guess is that they'll fully put the bloated Datejust II out to pasture and introduce the all-steel 3235-movement update.

SD has been discontinued after 30 months in production and Rolex IG account has been featuring GMT in their last 15 photos (same thing happened with SS Daytona C).

 

[FlyGuy]

Go check out Rolexpassionreport if you want visuals on what might happen at Basel.

 

[Steel28]



Go check out Rolexpassionreport if you want visuals on what might happen at Basel.

I did, I actually think he will be on point with some of his predictions.

 

[dcg]

Well this is interesting, sounds like the 116600 SD has been quietly discontinued...

This either means I'll be happy I bought when I did, or they're going to release some kind of upgrade/50th anniversary model that I'll be kicking myself for not waiting for. Guess I'll find out next month.