The Watch Appreciation Thread - Part two (Rolex, Patek Philippe, Audemars Piguet, Jaeger LeCoultre,

[Neville Southall]

They do that all the time. Thinks phase in and out and then back in again. Not surprised that the dial and bezel combo is back.

More surprised that they are bringing back the option of a steel Oyster bracelet. It’s borderline shocking, really. Almost as if they’re admitting *********** up. And Rolex never makes a mistake—not from Rolex’s perspective, anyway.

Exactly. It’s an odd move and completely devoid of any creativity. Rolex does what it does best, the same **** in different flavors.

 

[Neville Southall]

Me: I hate Rolex.”
Also me:

 

[TheFoo]

Maybe they will also produce enough so that every person who wants a BLNR can get one at MSRP? Doubtful, but maybe this is Rolex's opening bid in trying to calm down the SS shortage?

They likely can’t.

People seem to be under the impression that Rolex can just snap its fingers and shift or increase production. Like any other manufacturer, they have to be careful about investing in infrastructure just to satisfy short-term demand.

Perhaps their management is simply prudent enough to recognize the momentary sport watch craze for what it is.

 

[TheFoo]

Exactly. It’s an odd move and completely devoid of any creativity. Rolex does what it does best, the same **** in different flavors.

Who wants creativity from Rolex? These are not works of art. They are supposed to be purpose-built machines that can outlast decades of abuse and changing trends.

Creative watches are usually very ugly watches.

 

[classicalthunde]

Buying and selling is organic to any collecting hobby. You either make money or lose money on each trade. Nothing wrong with being on the positive side of the equation.

I disagree that buying with the intention of not using and re-selling to make a profit is part of the hobby (i.e. advertising a “fully stickered” panda Daytona)

I have no problem with someone selling their watches that they wanted, and then no longer need or want. And I have no problem with sellers pricing the watches according to the market. Those peoplefall outside of “flippers”

what I do have a problem with people who purchase with the sole intent to resell, purchase based on speculation rather than being interested in the watch itself, and people spamming this thread hawking their wares. Why else would someone keep the stickers and tags on a watch they purchased, that by definition almost means they never intended to wear it

call me crazy, I think watches should go to people who actually want them and are not looking to make ‘a couple of bucks’. I also think fans should be in the front row of a bands, maybe it’s the idealist in me.

I also fully realize that this a lost cause and I’m shouting into the void, but **** flippers

 

[mak1277]

Exactly. It’s an odd move and completely devoid of any creativity. Rolex does what it does best, the same **** in different flavors.

If they were creative, you'd just ***** about the ugly new watches they rolled out and why don't they stick to the classics...

 

[Idesofmarch17]

They likely can’t.

People seem to be under the impression that Rolex can just snap its fingers and shift or increase production. Like any other manufacturer, they have to be careful about investing in infrastructure just to satisfy short-term demand.

Perhaps their management is simply prudent enough to recognize the momentary sport watch craze for what it is.

I dont disagree - but it makes some strategic sense if they did. Rolex doesnt make more money because the BLNR or other SS models are going for 2x or 3x on the grey/secondary market. They would make more money by getting those watches on willing purchasers wrists by increasing production capacity. I have no knowledge of Rolex's production ability, but I imagine they could at least increase production of a single watch version by 25-50% without much issue, but who knows.

 

[mak1277]

I dont disagree - but it makes some strategic sense if they did. Rolex doesnt make more money because the BLNR or other SS models are going for 2x or 3x on the grey/secondary market. They would make more money by getting those watches on willing purchasers wrists by increasing production capacity. I have no knowledge of Rolex's production ability, but I imagine they could at least increase production of a single watch version by 25-50% without much issue, but who knows.

Why would they want to increase production of SS watches when they can make and sell higher margin gold and two-tone watches? It's not like they can't sell those things. You think they don't know exactly the right ratios to maximize their profit now and long term?

 

[Texasmade]

Who wants creativity from Rolex? These are not works of art. They are supposed to be purpose-built machines that can outlast decades of abuse and changing trends.

Creative watches are usually very ugly watches.

Supposed to be isn't what they actually are at this point. They're nice looking pieces of jewelry for men that can tell time.

 

[reidd]

They likely can’t.

People seem to be under the impression that Rolex can just snap its fingers and shift or increase production. Like any other manufacturer, they have to be careful about investing in infrastructure just to satisfy short-term demand.

Perhaps their management is simply prudent enough to recognize the momentary sport watch craze for what it is.

Much more likely that they engage in managing scarcity. This concept is well known in the luxury goods industry. These are after all mass produced watches. Obviously they have to manage their capital spending budget but there is no question if they saw that it was in their best long-term interest, Rolex would make and sell many more watches than they do now.

 

[Idesofmarch17]

Why would they want to increase production of SS watches when they can make and sell higher margin gold and two-tone watches? It's not like they can't sell those things. You think they don't know exactly the right ratios to maximize their profit now and long term?

Oh they certainly know. Just baseless speculation on my part (and a little hope)..

 

[TheFoo]

I dont disagree - but it makes some strategic sense if they did. Rolex doesnt make more money because the BLNR or other SS models are going for 2x or 3x on the grey/secondary market. They would make more money by getting those watches on willing purchasers wrists by increasing production capacity. I have no knowledge of Rolex's production ability, but I imagine they could at least increase production of a single watch version by 25-50% without much issue, but who knows.

Exactly—we don’t really know how much they can increase production under current conditions. But I would wager that the company knows what it’s doing and isn’t purposefully missing out on revenue opportunity. Also, given their unique business structure, they are more focused on long-term cash flow than accelerating growth.

 

[Dino944]

I was living in the Boston area in the mid 00s, and while Louis still had a very vibrant section for designer fashion - carrying the early collections of Cloak, Rag&Bone (though they did not know it when I first asked in 2003, they pretended to have always known by 2004 - I still have an interesting indigo dyed selvedge hop sack jacket from that time in the closet - and with great selections of Marni, Margiela, and dries van Noten, they also were still very strong in classic menswear, and while carrying a ton of Belvest and the like in a very distinctive Louis cut, with a slightly shorter skirt, also carried the first Vass in North America. By the time I left, though, it had atrophied considerably, within the span of about four years.

I always heard bad stories about Debbie, and from multiple sources, about how she was not only imperious, but that she also lacked an eye and was a second rate buyer. Certainly, at the end on my time in the Boston area, I’d become bored with Louis, and Alan Bilzerian was much more interesting.

Wearing a black and gold G-Shock mud master right now.

Yes, you were going there when the store still had a mix of classic and streetwear, but it was already changing. My dad bought me my first nice suit there when I was going to college around 1990. I still have a Rodex raincoat made in England (its now a defunct company, but they were higher end than Burberry and far more expensive). I haven't worn the rain coat in many years, but the few times I take it out and wear it I've still occasionally had people ask who makes, it and where to get it. I also have some cashmere sweaters, leather jackets, shearlings and other items.

Alan Bilzerian the store, and the owner are still there. My wife sometimes shops there. My line of work is too conservative, for a lot of what they sell. But back in the early 90's I used to shop there when I was into Yohji Yamamoto, Matsuda, and Issey Miyaki, etc. Riccardi was also big in the area for denim and sportswear...but much flashier with brands like Gianfranco Ferre, Byblos, Moschino, Thierry Mugler, Chrome Hearts, etc.

Yes, I've never heard any flattering stories about Debbie. Whenever I've bumped into people that worked for Murray, they say he was tough, but they always talk about what a visionary he was and how much they learned from working for him.

Edit- PS. One of my favorite stories regarding when Murray ran the store, was that a good client was in town and staying at a hotel. He asked them to send a over selection of suits, shirts, and coats, but no ties as he was really into Hermes ties. So Murray and his guys brought a bunch of suits & shirts to to Hermes, bought a bunch of their ties, and then brought the selection of clothing to the client to review/choose.

Murray's other daughter, Nancy, owns Relish, a successful womens clothing boutique in DC that has been in business for 25 years. Many years ago when Relish carried mens clothing, I asked her about Debi. Nancy rolled her eyes and made a snarky comment.

I had heard Nancy owns a shop in DC. I lived there years ago and I visit DC occasionally, but I've never visited that shop. I had seen Debbie from time to time in Louis, but never had any interactions with her. I still see two sales associates who were at Louis before the move to Fan Pier. Both say her father Murray was a real tough guy, but they always say how much the learned from him, and what a different environment it was when he ran the store. As for comments about Debbie, one said she could be rather nasty and she would just fire people because she felt like it. One of them was fired after nearly 30 years without so much as an explanation. He has been at another high end retailer ever since.

 

[TheFoo]

I disagree that buying with the intention of not using and re-selling to make a profit is part of the hobby (i.e. advertising a “fully stickered” panda Daytona)

I have no problem with someone selling their watches that they wanted, and then no longer need or want (and not a profit realization down the line). And I have no problem with sellers pricing the watches according to the market. Those peoplefall outside of “flippers”

what I do have a problem with so people who purchase with the sole intent to resell, purchase based on speculation rather than being interested in the watch itself, and people spamming this thread hawking their wares. Why else would someone keep the stickers and tags on a watch they purchased, that by definition almost means they never intended to wear it

call me crazy, I think watches should go to people who actually want them and are not looking to make ‘a couple of bucks’. I also think fans should be in the front row of a bands, maybe it’s the idealist in me.

I also fully realize that this a lost cause and I’m shouting into the void, but **** flippers

I think the core point you’re missing is that flippers don’t create demand. Their existence and market activities are not why you can’t get the watch you want. It’s simply that there are too many other buyers who are willing to pay more than you.

 

[Ambulance Chaser]

I disagree that buying with the intention of not using and re-selling to make a profit is part of the hobby (i.e. advertising a “fully stickered” panda Daytona)

I have no problem with someone selling their watches that they wanted, and then no longer need or want. And I have no problem with sellers pricing the watches according to the market. Those peoplefall outside of “flippers”

what I do have a problem with people who purchase with the sole intent to resell, purchase based on speculation rather than being interested in the watch itself, and people spamming this thread hawking their wares. Why else would someone keep the stickers and tags on a watch they purchased, that by definition almost means they never intended to wear it

call me crazy, I think watches should go to people who actually want them and are not looking to make ‘a couple of bucks’. I also think fans should be in the front row of a bands, maybe it’s the idealist in me.

I also fully realize that this a lost cause and I’m shouting into the void, but **** flippers

I don't like flippers either, but I think they provide some value if they acquire a watch from a source that is either unwilling or unable to sell to an end consumer who wants to own the watch. The flippers I really can't stand are the ones who are able to buy from an online seller that is open to all customers (think Ming or a Hodinkee collaboration) by dint of luck or faster internet connection and then tries to flip the watch to someone who wasn't as lucky. Sometimes the watches show up on eBay before the flipper has taken possession!