The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

[Dusty Heaters]

Nice! It looks like midnight blue?

Flat black actually...I know the cellphone pictures aren't the best at bringing out the detail. I'd like to say that's my future pics will be better, but they won't, I also only use a cellphone.

 

[Kuro Kujikiri]

The promotion for the Iron Chef All Stars charity degustation dinner at the Sydney Opera House on the 2nd and 3rd August 2017 says "black-tie only" (...spot the black tie?...)

 

[Bounder]

The promotion for the Iron Chef All Stars charity degustation dinner at the Sydney Opera House on the 2nd and 3rd August 2017 says "black-tie only" (...spot the black tie?...)

View attachment 816439

The more correct phrasing of the black tie dress code is, "Black Tie or National Dress." The guy on the left is obviously from Labelkinglandia, so he's fine. I don't know about the other three.

 

[Lensmaster]

Silly question, what bow tie end widths are you all wearing? I am looking at a few between 2.25" and 2.75" butterfly bow ties, and can't decide if the 2.75" will look ridiculous on me. I am only 5' 11" on a good day so worried it will look too big. Thanks in advance!

Actually a very good question. Different types of bow ties make a big difference in the look. I studied on this quite a while when I started wearing them. I wear butterfly on the narrower side. I think that looks best on most people. I think the bigger they get the closer to clownish they look. It's not in your question but I think the narrow batwings only look good on Frank Sinatra.

 

[brax]

Your vest was u-shape with no lapel, correct?

And I agree with the shirt - that shirt is a disaster, it was a mens wearhouse rental. My current shirt is a hamilton, but I anticipate that I will splurge for something else. Never too late for a new shirt .

No. It has the more common waistcoat configuration but if I could do it over again, I would definitely go with the U configuration.

 

[Blake686]

Thanks for your reply @Lensmaster, appreciate the insights. I am leaning toward the smaller end, I know it seems silly to think about when the different is a quarter inch, but I think it makes a difference. Thanks again!

 

[am55]

Who are the top RTW dinner suit makers today?

I'm having some issues shopping as the usual suspects from the lounge suit world have questionable taste. For some reason Italians like multiple buttons, razor thin lapels or with a gorge so high the peaks are on the shoulderblades, "interesting" fabrics for the jacket, etc. Even Brioni does things like putting silk facing on the chest pocket...

The Brits get it right more often, of course (e.g. Ede & Ravenscroft) but are much harder to get hold of outside the UK. Much as I appreciate the sturdiness of a classic durable British piece of clothing I'm also looking for something a bit more luxurious and fun for the next one (whilst remaining classically proportioned and styled).

I don't rate local bespoke options, in particular the finishing is never great in Asia and I'm not in Europe until December, and then only for a few weeks.

 

[Caustic Man]

What on earth do you mean by "luxurious and fun"?

 

[am55]

Taking suiting as an example, a 90s worsted from a British tailor is a classic choice for work in a temperate climate, durable, good drape, etc. but it isn't "fun".

Compare this to say, a Cesare Attolini jacket in a softer, higher thread count material with magnificent hand finishing (yes, I'm aware of your dislike for Milanese buttonholes - well, Attolini is in Naples, so there): still a beautiful (in a different way) and classically styled piece, but it won't last you anywhere near as long. I guess "impractical" is a better word for it. It is fun because you save it for special occasions. I think Luigi Borrelli's unstructured work in super soft fabrics is the ultimate example but I can't bring myself to wear something so shapeless, even if I appreciate the intention and execution.

To follow the metaphor, I'm thinking of getting a Cesare Attolini since I already own the British suits. But not something out of a Pal Zileri ad, which is what most RTW black tie looks like today in my experience.

 

[Caustic Man]

I don't dislike Milanese buttonholes. I simply think it's an absurd topic.

So I take it what you want is something in a fancy pants fabric with all sort of details that almost no one cares about. There is nothing wrong with that in the same way that there is nothing wrong with liking Milanese buttonholes. It's simply not important enough to be right or wrong. So I get why you think certain fabrics are luxurious (as much as I hate the term 'luxury' I at least still understand what people mean by it), but I don't understand why you attach that certain meaning to the word "fun." Wouldn't you save any tuxedo for special occasions, regardless if it was made of a certain fabric or not? I mean, unless you are a waiter or a member of the band. It seems to me that you want to feel like the prince for a day. Nothing wrong with that. A bit vain, but not wrong. In any case, I don't understand why you say the British offerings are harder to come by. With the internet you can have nearly anything you want by mail. Indeed, why not go to Ede & Ravenscroft's website right now?

 

[poorsod]

"luxurious and fun" sounds like you are looking for something like a velvet smoking jacket rather than the traditional tux

 

[am55]

Googling "define:luxurious" I get "giving self-indulgent or sensuous pleasure" and "extremely comfortable, elegant, or enjoyable, especially in a way that involves great expense". Seems pretty clear to me.

Do you only drink $10 wine from the supermarket or do you occasionally indulge in Haut Brion, Opus One or a glass of Dom Perignon? To each man their hobby. I like nice things and there are occasions where I want to own and wear, for myself, something handmade by great artisans. It is selfish, entirely about self-indulgence. I don't care much for what others think about it, beyond being considerate to their taste (i.e. being appropriate to the occasion, which is a complex and context-dependent issue). I would not wear a Borrelli jacket to an Australian business occasion but I would wear it (if the unstructured, soft style fit me, which it never has) to a cocktail party hosted by a friend with artistic sensibilities, where the dry formality of a British suit would be out of place (well, Huntsman would work).

 

[am55]

"luxurious and fun" sounds like you are looking for something like a velvet smoking jacket rather than the traditional tux

Thanks for the suggestion. I've always wanted to wear a smoking jacket but there are no occasions where it would be appropriate (in the sense that even in the most creative of occasions my personality would not carry it off). It would be burgundy, however.

I was thinking about something much more classic styled, but with a softer cloth with a subtly different sheen and drape (perhaps a cashmere blend? alpaca?). Something like this Rubinacci LH:

What draws me to the Italians is how they can take a fully canvassed jacket and keep it structured and draping well whilst making feel like a light cashmere jumper. But I struggle to find this, at the same time as classic details being kept, particularly lapel proportions.

 

[Caustic Man]

I don't think anyone would say you shouldn't do any of this. At least for my part, suggesting the word luxurious is dumb was just a brief aside.

If you want to get a strictly classic velvet jacket, find one that is self faced.

 

[Newcomer]

I lie somewhere between the poles, i.e., between CM and crdb - I'll try to take a stab at this.

As an initial matter, I understand where crdb is coming from - although I am not certain I would use all of his flowery language (and this is coming from someone who 'oft' uses flowery language). I understand the idea of a "luxurious and fun" tuxedo. However, I would not necessarily describe it as "a Cesare Attolini jacket in a softer, higher thread count material with magnificent hand finishing." If money was no option, I would not choose to wear the same tuxedo to attend a wedding as I would to attend a bachelor party in Vegas.

There is a fine line between a classic tuxedo, on the one hand, and a tuxedo that breaks certain conventions but does not fall into the sartorial abyss. I believe that crdb wants just that: something less stodgy - and perhaps more interesting - than a classic tuxedo. However, based on my research, I believe that he will be utterly unsuccessful in his search. The vast majority of RTW tuxedos available miss the mark, and do so by a substantial margin. The biggest issue, and this extends to most RTW nowadays, is the width of the lapels. Skimpy lapels just look wrong for some reason on a dinner jacket.

A suggestion - I am not sure how Eidos fits you, and I am not sure what your timeline is, but I believe that Greg with NMWA may be planning a MTO "event" with Eidos in the not-to-distant future. I find that Eidos has the most tasteful, stylistically speaking, "less stodgy" black tie.

In any event, in my opinion a tuxedo should be dramatic. To that end, I believe that silhouette is far more important than fabric or minor details.