Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by SpooPoker, Dec 23, 2012.
...and especially so if you happen to thrift a couple of dead pheasants
You mean like this vintage Triumph I thrifted today?
Here's some more pics of those tags.
I was asked to crosspost my post from the thrift thread here, which I have, typos and all. I'll leave it spoilered for you poor mobile-viewing souls.
This was also one of the things I picked up yesterday. Warning: a VERY LONG clothing construction/history sidebar follows...though if you're at all interested in the coolness side of the tailored clothes we deal with, I think it's worth it...
So, I've seen this jacket before on previous visits to one of my shops, and was always really temped to pick it up. But perpetually in a rush, I didn't really look at the detailing on it until yesterday's visit. I paid a bit more attention to it and many of the detailing features stuck out to me. Hand finished lapels, functional cuffs with (what I think is) hand sewn buttonholes, well done internal canvassing structure, etc. When I saw it in the store, I thought the pick stitching was machine done (which, btw, literally goes ALL along the jacket...lapels, sleeves, shoulders, back, bottom... the entire jacket), but from what I'm seeing on tuttofattoamano and after looking really closely at the stitch work, it really might be completely hand done, which is utterly insane to me considering the extent (more on that later). So, I finally caved and bought it despite the stain (I now have a really amazing dry cleaner who I'm sure can get the stain out anyway), then got home and did some research. I'm quite glad I did. First, pictures.
So, some research led me, first, to A. Carceni's wiki page, which is quite glowing, and details the house's storied history, dating back to World War I era Italy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caraceni). It did mention that the name and rights were bought at some point along the way, and that the "revised" Carceni wasn't nearly as impressive as the original counterpart. Some additional digging led me to this (http://www.gentlemansgazette.com/noteworthy-a-caraceni/), which explains in ancestry tree-like detail, the history of the Carceni tailoring family, which I found absolutely fascinating. The long and the short of it is, after the original Carceni died off, his sons opened up two different fashion houses under the name, both fantastic in their own right. Later, the sons of each (both?? Hard to tell) sons, continued the legacy, but at some point the quality of the name was...diluted. Thankfully, it appears that the SC I own was made at one of the original houses, at the Fatebenefratelli address (good brothers??? unless my Italian really is that rusty), and is the good stuff. Even more research led me, finally, to the aforementioned posting by the one and only tuttofattoamano blog (he's a SFer...if you haven't check him out, he does amazing work: http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/), where he had nothing but glowing things to say about the construction of the piece, even calling the pick stitching I talked about earlier "some of the best finishing work I've seen", to which I'm completely inclined to agree (http://tuttofattoamano.blogspot.com/2010/05/caraceni.html). I was glad to see that many of my thrifting-honed intuitions about the quality of pieces were pretty spot on.
Now that I've got you deep-link divers here, I figured I'd show off a few other pieces from my "Museum of Awesome Ass Old Tailored Pieces". Recently through thrifting, I've come to realize/acknowledge that I'm a bit of a history nerd, and almost equally an appreciator of artwork-quality handiwork. So, along my thrifting adventures, I've come across some pieces that I had no intention of ever selling or wearing (there is one exception I'll note later), that I just had to get because of the overwhelming cool factor of them. I think I've posted one or two of them before, but I figured I'd give them all the full treatment here in one post.
The first, and probably the most valuable (though I have absolutely zero intention of selling it) is really cool. It's a blazer from the United States Military Academy (aka, West Point) graduating class of 1950. Pics first:
These kinds of things show up really infrequently on ebay, with wildly ranging prices. That said, because of the rarity, I saw similarly dated blazers go for up to a few hundred bucks, and a cardigan sweater (granted, it was awesome as fuck) go for over a grand. Some digging led me to this landing page for the 1950 class, which is absolutely fascinating in its own right (http://www.usma1950.com/). The records and details that they keep on this stuff really shows how important the "West Point experience" was to many of these guys - especially since these guys entered right after World War II, when the country was in a very uncertain place. I'm not sure if you can tell from the pictures, but the emblem is raised from the surface by at least 1/4", and is probably physically heavy when removed. It's constructed of these amazing almost metallic-like "braids" of heavy thread or something resembling thread - it's really cool in person. It's a gorgeous grey flannel jacket, and aside from the breast emblem is something straight out of an episode of Mad Men. Super cool piece.
This was my first really exciting vintage find, and is near and dear to my heart for more than a few reasons, including the fact that 1) it was also my Savile Row find, 2) it's motherfucking awesome, 3) it fits me (kinda), 4) it's the only Savile Row piece I've found from a now completely defunct maker, and 5) its provenance. I won't go into detail on the last (I really do like to preserve the anonymity of the previous owners, so you'll note that I usually black out the names if there's anything at all identifying on the jackets), but this guy could easily be a true life stand in for those "The Most Interesting Man in the World" commercials. Pics first:
The jacket is from the now defunct Sandon & Co., formerly of Savile Row. Sandon's gained its noteriety mostly as a house specializing in riding gear for both men and women, and they were well regarded for what they did with this (their pieces still demand an insane asking price on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandon-Co-Scarlet-Red-Hunt-Coat-Small-/350275045911 and http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sandon-Co-S...528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519e15c7e0...before you scold me for posting a current asking/non-completed listing, realize I did so only because there are, literally, no completed listings on ebay at the moment, since they just don't show up very often. My research led me to find out that this is actually a men's riding jacket - that's why the ticket pocket is so much higher than the lower pocket - in order to make it accessible while actually mounted on a horse, and also why it has side vents. As with the other pieces, the hand finishing is nothing short of amazing, what you'd expect from a SR piece. Hand sewn buttonholes, lapels, hand attached collar, working cuffs (with something I've never seen before: a "faux" top button which looks to have made the sleeve assembly even more complicated - and thus, more expensive - than normal surgeon cuffs), side vents, a soft shoulder, full canvassing...all the good stuff. Even though it's dated to 1964, this thing is eminently wearable in the pattern and styling. It fits me - I'm going to fix a small separation on the collar attachment and get it (VERY CAREFULLY) dry cleaned, then rock this thing proudly.
Next was also a bit of a heartbreak. I searched everywhere for the pants for this beast hoping to find them, but to no avail. It would have made a killer 3-piece suit. The jacket and vest are pinstripe, so, sacrelig as separates according to the mainstream crowd, but I honestly wouldn't hesitate to rock this bold beast somehow. Pics below.
It is by "Cooling, Lawrence, and Wells," later known as "Wells & Sons," and later known as "Wells Tailors and Shirtmakers." They were located at 47 Maddox Street in London, through sometime in the 1970s. Make no mistake, these guys were no Savile Row or even off-Row tailors in terms of prominence, but this is just an overall cool piece from an interesting era in London. It's a great heavyweight flannel type fabric with an underlying herringbone pattern and a cool yellow pinstripe. Yeah, it has wings where the lapels should be, but it also has lots of awesome detailing features we normally associate with high quality: functional cuffs, hand sewn lapels, side vents, and a really gorgeous lining on both the jacket and the vest have an awesome lining.
This next one is pretty similar to the one above, but is more likely a sportcoat (though, who knows...the 70s were a crazy time, man). Pics below.
This one is awesome in its own right: it's a sicknasty pattern and fabric texture, is obviously incredibly well made, and (aside from the on the wide side lapels), the styling features are close enough to timeless that I will have no hesitation wearing it (which I will, since it fits me). It is from Lesley & Roberts, who has an interesting and storied history. From my research (unintentionally aided greatly by ATLJon - thanks!), it looks like they've bounced around quite a bit, from Hannover Street, to the famed Cork Street, to finally being bought up by another Savile Row house (Welsh & Jeffries). But they definitely have the quality of all of the heavy hitters - hand sewn lapels, buttonholes, hand attached collar, and side vents to boot. It's cool to see how high even the standard of craftsmanship was just thirty years ago, that could result in such a well made piece from a non-SR (but clearly, still crazy well regarded in its own right) tailoring house.
And last - but certainly not least - is the oldest piece I've kept in my collection. It's totally radtastic, but a heartbreaker because I couldn't find the pants (despite scouring and watching the store that they came out of like a hawk in the following weeks). Pics first.
This is an absolutely awesome tuxedo jacket from Austin Reed, back when they actually made their pieces on Regent Street, London, from 1940. The first thing that strikes you about this (well, me at least), is how absolutely awesome it looks despite defying the 1 button shawl lapel/peak lapel convention. I've seen dudes almost almost get shanked for suggesting that anything other than a 1 button shawl lapel or peak lapel tuxedo is acceptable. I know a Barathea 2/1 DB like this one is considered far more acceptable by the Brits, but SF-think ingrained in me that this jacket was basically the sign of Satan's second coming, so I was shocked when I realized how absolutely aesthetically pleasing this jacket looks. The second thing that strikes you when you see (well, feel) this thing is the sheer weight of the behemoth. It is a tank, and I'm fairly certain the lapels are kevlar, not grosgrain. The heavy Barathea twill fabric is weighty, but totally awesome in how it looks when worn. It's a commanding piece overall, and just feels like elegance. Just like the others, all of the handiwork is top notch...it was assembled in 1940 on (what was then) the absolute upper echelon of fashion districts, and so all the handwork isn't surprising (hand attached collar, working cuffs, hand stitched pockets, the works). As a sidenote, these sleeve buttons were the most difficult I've ever encountered to unbutton, and I attribute that to the fact that there was serious attention paid to them and in threading the string around the sleeve buttons in a way that would ensure their integrity for....oh...70 years or so..of use.
In case it's not evident, none of this is for sale, and even if this post (which took me embarassingly long to write) gets zero views or responses, it was worthwhile since sharing this all was was for my own edification. Even though the thrifting pursuit is about money WAYYYY more often that it should or would be in an ideal world, I really do love this hobby, for things like this. These are awesome relics of history, and each is an encapsulation of a different time. Many of these pieces will never be replicated in the form I have them, with their masters having died off never to be replaced, or their tailoring philosophies falling by the wayside as new methods and forms come into favor. I think it's cool stuff, and I'll continue to collect really awesome pieces like this for my own enjoyment, and really really encourage everyone else to do so.
Note: It says on one of the Labels, Chicago 41, Illinois. Zip codes were introduced in 1963.
So the jacket is most likely older.
Incredible find. Does it run big? I'm a 44R and would be
interested in it.
Yeah..when I saw the graphics on the duck tag, screamed 40s/50s, and with no zip code as mentioned above, confirms that for me...
Nice bike as well...you mentioned changing out the bars but I would keep the handle bars, just change the grips.
And if you ever do try to sell it...make sure you keep all the original parts!
MIND BLOWN!! THIS IS WHAT THIS (and the thrift thread) ARE ALL ABOUT HFS, ANDRO!!
Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
I am gutted this is not my size.
That thing is gorgeous, Spoo.
Thanks... I know. I was all then all
Is it from the 70s early 80s?
Who made it for Harry Rothman?
I have a suit from J Press that is cut like that
with side vents but without a ticket pocket from the 70s.
At that time Press sold such suits RTW .I am the original
Not much more information other than USA made for Rothman, and the ACTWU label puts it at somewhere between 62-76, more likely towards the latter. Its constructed to the hilt - very, very well made.
I thought red numbers meant later production dates?
Nope... opposite. Black numbers are the latest of that batch.
Separate names with a comma.