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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. Biggquis

    Biggquis Senior member

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    Thanks for the reply. I'm VERY new at shoe care. Would you mind explaining to me when I would use polish vs wax?
     
  2. narcosis219

    narcosis219 Active Member

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    Cream polish for color

    Wax polish for shine
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but these terms are not correct - there are
    [leather] cream: in a glass jar or tube - without wax, without color pigments - penetrating the leather and don't cause a shine (w/o wax!) - used for bags, purses, belts aso.
    shoe cream: jar or tube - with wax part, with color pigments, excepted: neutral/colorless shoe creams - penetrating the leather, refreshing the color, and with a final shine which can reach the gloss of a
    shoe polish: in a tin or in a jar - main part is wax or better: a mixture of different waxes - with or w/o color pigments - doesn't penetrate the leather, remaining oin the graining (the surface) - causes high shine/gloss

    There are additionally many other pastes and fluids to take care of leather and/or shoes like mink oil, neatsfood oil, Argan oil aso.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
    1 person likes this.
  4. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    You'll get the best result if you remove the dark color completely with a leather cleaner and
    make a renovation with a special shoe cream for patina or recoloring the leather which you can remove later with a leather cleaner also.
    A leather color may be OK also.
     
  5. Churchill W

    Churchill W Senior member

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    Eh, I prefer narcosis' terminology. It seems to make more sense. When we say polish it means there is some sort of shining agent in it. I think what you call leather cream is what I would call leather conditioner.
     
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  6. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    A leather cream is not a conditioner.

    "Conditioner" says all and nothing - it can be a fluid, a cream, a paste, a spray like water repellent sprays aso.
    There are also:
    Leather Lotions, leather cleaner, moisturizer, different oils aso.

    The point "shining" to call a product "polish" doesn't make sense because a lot of items can cause a shine and
    the difference between a shoe or leather cream and a polish is that a cream can penetrate the leather - all polishes I know remain on the leather.

    You can use your definitions as you want to do it but if somebody asks for an advice it may be better to use the international terms of shoe care.:)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
    1 person likes this.
  7. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    Two questions:

    In the pic below, would this be a dealbreaker? I have the opportunity to purchase a pair of Alden Indy CXL boots for a song, but if you guys think this is more than just minor cosmetic damage, I'd love to know.

    Also, if worth buying, how might one mitigate the appearance of the scrapes/whatever? Just brushing? Rubbing with a finger/VSC and then brushing?

    Thanks!

    [​IMG]
     
  8. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    When answering to someones question here i have to evaluate :

    1) the problem he faces
    2) the level of his experience
    3)the risk of any solution/recommendation i give to make things worse when its performed by someone not so experienced as me or some other gentlemen in here!

    Then i give him the solution i think its the best for all the above aspects!

    There is no point giving someone the best solution( according to my perspective always) when it is quite impossible for him to perform it correctly for the first time and the possibility to damage his pair permanently is really high!!No point to say to someone to use dyes , harsh cleaners (only with that he can ruin his shoes surface and make the unwearable) etc when he has never used them before and just want to make his shoes look OK!
     
    4 people like this.
  9. Biggquis

    Biggquis Senior member

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    Thanks for both of these replies. What I do want to avoid with these shoes is trying to get them "perfect". I probably wouldn't even want to wear them if so. Just trying to make it not as noticeable, and something that will hopefully cover up a little more over time. If it comes down to stripping color and all that jazz, I'll just ship them to AE and have them refinish the shoes.
     
  10. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Being a simple soul, I tend to use Occam's Razor, on this one and keep it simple. For me:

    1) Shoe cream is what I put on when I want to do a routine clean of my shoes. It is possible just to do this. Shoe polish tends to come in pots.
    2) Shoe wax is what I would use if I wanted more shiny shoes. [I don't use it as I don't like brightly polished shoes]. Wax tends to come in thin, round, tins.
    3) Conditioner, such as Renovateur, is what I use, very occasionally, if I want to keep my shoes supple and well nourished. It comes in various formats.

    Most of all, though, I brush my shoes a lot. At least, before I go out and when I get back.

    One little indulgence. I put a tiny touch of Renapur on the vamp of my shoes, if they haven't been polished for a bit and look a bit dry.

    Yours, with very best wishes, Munky.
     
    2 people like this.
  11. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a good experience how to care leather and shoes? I ask that because it's more than just a cosmetic damage - these boots are seconds. You can try to smooth out the dents as follows: Cream the boots 2 or 3 times, wait after each creaming 1 or 2 days till the next spread out, use a good shoe cream and make thin layers. After 4, 5 days the leather will be soaked well you take a little heart thing in your hand and press it inside of the boot against the lining as an abutment. while you rub out the dents in circular movements with a tool, any rund item like a marble or a round pencap or, very typically, with a shoe bone (if you have one). It may be that you'll have to repeat this procedure one or 2 times. It's impossible to forecast a well looking result - if this risk is to high for you then.... It depends of the price you have to pay for these boots. On the other hand after some weeks these damages won't be worth to think about because the boots will show other signs of wearing also.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  12. BackInTheJox

    BackInTheJox Senior member

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    Thanks for the advice! I bought them for a little under $300 (vs $550ish). I figure I'll try some of the things you suggested before wearing, and if it's not to my liking, I may be able to pass them on at no loss hopefully.

    Plus as you said, these are hard-wearing boots. Unless they are structurally damaged, I'm not gonna stress much.
     
  13. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Do you even know what kind of leather cxl is and how its made and treated? Most of the production procedure is close enough to the cordovan leather!! It is double tanned (chrome and vegetable ) and infused with oils, waxes, and greases !!

    By doing what you suggested the only thing you achieve is messing up the factory leather finish , over saturating the surface only and probably produce a big scale stain!

    If i remember correctly Alden uses Horween cxl ! The easiest way to treat these marks is by getting the leather a little above body temperature (hold the leather with your hands for a while and rub a little) ! then push with your fingers from the inside out and apply a tiny amount of Saphir renovateur (or an other cream/conditioner having neatsfoot oil(its the last coat that the leather receives from the tanning factory)) !Preferably the entire pair to avoid darker areas! Then while pushing with your fingers from the inside use the back of big spoon to press down the marked are so to make the marks flatten!Finally give them a good brush!

    With wear(contraction -detraction from body heat and cooling) and time (some more conditioning routines, not more than once every one month) the marks ll fade away!
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but finally you give the same advice as I've done it and it's not necessary to teach me something about leather, please.
    Shell Cordovan is not a leather, it's very different to it and a leather can be tanned only one time, there is no double tanning method but a mixed one.

    If the good shoe cream would over saturate the leather - what does the Renovateur then?
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
  15. ace13x

    ace13x Senior member

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  16. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    FAIK, CXL is a retanned leather--vegetable and mineral. And that usually means a two step process with regard to tannage, nevermind hot stuffing.

    Shell cordovan is a pure vegetable tannage.

    If the boots came from the factory like that, they should have been sold as "seconds."

    Can this damage be ameliorated? Probably, maybe. It depends on whether the grain surface of the leather has been broken. If it can be "fixed," a combination of pushing the marks outward and a measure of benign neglect will do more than all the elaborate conjurations in the world.

    In my professional opinion...
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
    4 people like this.
  17. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    No , not at all!! Firstly you suggested applying leather cream (in general and not specifying which one!! there are at least 9-10 good out there but only 2-3 can be used on cxl without any problem at all, Horween itself recommends Saphir Renovateur for their cxl!) 2-3 times at the spot and repeat the process one more or two times! That means 6/9 applications which lead to oversaturation 100% and the result will be spot stains!(i have seen it in person on cxl, and it was a pain in the .... to fix it)! i said one application and preferably at the entire pair!

    Secondly you suggested using a heart shaped object and push from the inside (this ll cause the same issue but at opposite direction) ! With your fingers making this is quit impossible or you have to use your nails and do it on purpose!

    Third , by using a pencup the only thing you are going to do is to create more marks especially if you are going to use it in circular motion! With a big spoon you wont!!

    Shoe bone????? i suppose you mean deer bone, marketing trick mostly and its not for that use (if you mean shoe horn then its completely false)


    Shell Cordovan is leather , in fact is a very specific leather, from a particular part of a horsehide!! (copy paste from Horween site the bolded part) ! Its the part over and at the sides of the back legs and only from the female horse (it is a lot thicker than the rest of the hide and has the purpose to withstand the pressure and the friction from the stallion during the sexual intercourse) !! if you need more information you can always Google it!(its clear that you haven't even get in the trouble to read most of the thread)

    I know to someone with not much experience these seam to be minor differences but they have a really huge impact at the final outcome!!

    ps. the problem wasn't renovateur , the problem was the number of the applications!
     
  18. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It is worth noting however that shell is a membrane or muscle sheath / ligament between the muscle and the hide. It is not the hide.

    Depending on how you define "leather"...ie. a cured or tanned hide, for instance(which is the usual definition)...whether it is technically 'leather" is open to question.

    If we take a thin slice of shoulder muscle and subject it to the same chemicals and process as the hide, would it be "leather?" I suppose it depends on who you ask, but personally, I don't think so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2017
    1 person likes this.
  19. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    A really nice video on how shell cordovan is made and shows exactly what part of the hide is used to make the cordovan leather
    Its part of animals skin !its a flat muscle type part of the hide if you want to go on veterinary terms but its part of the skin! Even Wikipedia where you copypasted the above definition says its leather !(btw Wikipedia has a lot articles that's false , especially if you see about ancient history (ancient Greek and roman ,even names are wrong a lot of time))

    [​IMG]
    that's the part that is used to make the shell cordovan leather
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. M635Guy

    M635Guy Senior member

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    Whether it is leather or not is, I suppose, strictly a matter of how you define leather. I don't really worry about it technically, and call it leather because it is created in a very similar fashion and used in the same ways.

    I agree with Ben that the advice described was beyond wrong to the point of dangerous.
     

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