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**The Official Shoe Care Thread: Tutorials, Photos, etc.**

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mr. Moo, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. benhour

    benhour Senior member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Athens
    I write in this thread for the past 4,5 years! The only reason for that is to help people(not to damage their shoes ) not to promote anything, if my advises and what i suggest works you can read this thread and see (obviously you never took the time to do that or you would know the answer)!

    its not personal attack i just cant tolerate shit storming!!(you would also know that if you havent come in this thread like a meteorite to promote your merchandise) !Believe my i am really calm !

    By the way you dont sell saphir products you sell only boot black at your shop dont say lies pls (i can upload photos here if you want!! )

    Yes i can see you have tones of experience (thats why 90% of what you suggest is incorrect , miss leading and ll cause more problems in the long run)!! i didnt want to point out every false thing you suggest or say but you wanted that way so lets start!!


    "A solvent is the prominent component of a homogenous mixture or solution made of two or more combined materials. A solution is made when a lesser amount of material called a solute is dissolved into the solvent". As my university chemistry book for engineers dictates! Every cream and every solution has a primer solvent !! Its simple chemistry, i cant teach you chemistry in a forum (basic school education here)

    if you have read this thread you would know that we were talking about the solvents in most of shoe care products for about a week with intensive research from a lot gentlemen in here (patrickbooth,dwfii , munky,chogal,glenkaren, me and a lot others (glenkaren has his own shoe care products using citrus extract as a solvent and a lot other "exotic" staff) i think its unnecessary to write again something which is already written in this thread just because you dint have the decency to read this thread before posting in here!!

    you like it or not shell cordovan its part of the hide not part of the skin and every dictionary and site call it leather (you can just google the definition of it to see )! you want to dont call it leather no problem from me but you cant say it is (by the way why you edit your posts every time after we say something and delete things ??? everyone can see that in your posts about shell)




    (1) have you ever seen how the lasting procedure is performed by a shoe maker or in a factory??? the leather is always wet and well nourished or else you risk to split it from the tension!

    (2) you didnt even understood why i marked this! the coloring properties of the paste polish is not affected at all if you have conditioned your shoes first and the conditioner is fully absorbed!! the pigments in the paste polish (shoe cream for you) dont penetrate the leather they are deluded(trapped) in the wax mostly and stay on top sticking at the leather surface thats why you can wash it of your fingers afterwards!! Dyes penetrate the leather thats why when you dye leather you wear protective gloves all the time because it penetrates your skin and you can

    (3)that dictates exactly your lack of any experience!! the paste polish and wax polis works exactly in the same way on a new leather as on an old one!! you can raise a high shine easier (only if you are inexperienced) on an old leather due to the wax build ups from the previous applications and not from the absorption of the solvent in the paste polish (solvents in the wax polish (turpentine for safir -naphtha and petroleum distillates for other manufacturers ) has the purpose to prevent the solidification of wax and make it easier to use so you dont need to heat it to use it)

    (4) the creases will be exactly the same and in really delicate leather would be deeper!! on the other hand a well nourished leather would recover better from the stresses but only if you put shoe trees inside and brush the dust away!

    (*) i have seen on your video with the black pair you have used wax on the vamp area!! dont do that !! when you would start walking it ll crack asap and start trapping dust particles inside!! in the long run these particles will work as a sand paper and deteriorate the grain and lead to an unrepearable crack of the leather!
     
  2. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Saarlouis
    

    I've written that new leather is relatively dry and not that it is absolutely dry - that makes the difference.
    You can check it out with a new bag or with new shoes also - moisturize the (right) half of the shoe with a moisturizer or with a good shoe cream and after some wearing you 'll see the difference.
    The reason for the relative dryness is that the leather from the tannery can be cut and and the upper lasted more easyly because it has more stand (= term of tanners).

    I've soaked brandnew 4 years old shoes with relatively dry leather, creamed with 3 very thin cream/wax layers and made a water shine polish on it.
    Several "experts" in the Internet say that that would be impossible to creat a high shine or mirror gloss on brandnew shoes but this leather has been very dry because the shoe had left the factory 4 years before.

    The solvent in a shoe cream is only one ingredient to produce a good shoe cream, additionally very important is the fineness of the colorpigments, their intensity and their quantity and very important the oils.
    All the components together make a good shoe cream nor only one neither the solvent for itself.
    But the sovlent is very important for the penetration of the leather - a Germany company has made different tests and controled it:
    The shoe care with solvent has penetrated the leather 20 % till 25 % deeper than the same item w/o a solvent component.

    If the leather has a special coating like waterrepellent then it's not allowed to use any product which contains a solvent because it would destroy the wetting.
    That means that a shoe polish can attack and destroy the hydrpophobic treatment very fast.

    A solvent, about 45 %, sometimes less but very often 50 % and more, of a shoe polish/wax are solvent which evaporates very fast because the wax layer is very thin, doesn't damage the leather.
    It is impossible to mix a shoe polish w/o a solvent.

    I had written that there are only a few shoe creams with a higher wax part on the market - that's why they generate a higher shine than others - that says nothing about their quality over all aspects which make an excellent one.

    I don't want to write more about the different shoe cream and shoe polish qualities because
    I don't like personal attacks as substitute for missing own knowlegde.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  3. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Saarlouis
    

    Dear Sir,

    it's enough with your attacks!

    I'm selling Saphir, I have sold Saphir and I'll do it within the next few months.
    YOU are the liar if you write the opposite!
    Not I for myself - I've proposed 2 items and written enough about AVEL in the posts before without having mentioned BB or EG (which I don't sell) more than 1 time
    and I've not linked any shop.

    You can call monsieur Marc Moura or monsieur Marc Vallez and ask both gentlemen who I am and what I know about shoes, shoe making and shoe care.

    What you are telling to the readers doesn't matter neither your motivation to do it for me is only one point important and I ask you for it a second time.
    Stop your personal attacks against me and stop the public discrediting of my person, please.

    The shoe and the video are made by another gentleman, I've only published it:
    The black shoe is made with 2 different items which high shine the shoe completely.
    Nothing will happen because these are very special "creams".

    P.S. Do you own Saphir Mirror Gloss and where did you buy it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
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    Location:
    New York City
    Could you post the German study that you mentioned? Also, how do these shoe care manufacturers control for oxidation of the oils?
     
  5. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Jun 5, 2013
    Location:
    Wales, UK
    Easy tigers! Too much heat! All I know is that the three people I respect most on this thread are DW, Patrick Booth and Benhour. They have taught me a huge amount about shoe care and have a huge amount of experience of such care. Added to which, DW is a master boot and shoe maker. My shoes would be in a far worse state without them! Yours truly, Munky.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  6. TtownMD

    TtownMD Senior member

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    Location:
    US
    ^^^all above gents are very knowledge able that you mentioned and I agree Munky but out of them my favorite is patrickBOOTH I like his shoe care technique which I do brush, brush, brush and bick 4 it [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  7. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Jun 2, 2007
    Location:
    Saarlouis
    

    The information about the effect of solvent as part of a shoe care product comes from LEDERFEIN[​IMG]: http://www.leder-fein.de/
    The effect of a solvent in a shoe cream is well known in other countries also - it's the precondition for a relatively deep penetration of the leather,
    a good color refresh and a long time moisturization.
    Oxidation
    I've never asked a producer for the secrets of the production because they don't publish it.
    I only know that they have a test team to develop and to check out the "creams" and other items - that procedure takes till one year and a half.
    If the product is OK and the leather/shoe effects are as planned then they delivers it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  8. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    643
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    Jul 23, 2012
    Location:
    Athens
    Dear sir ,

    the "attack" was never personal i just dictated what was false accusation and most of the time speculation!

    when suggesting something to someone is better if you have firstly tested it your self!! Exactly for that reason you will never see me here suggesting anything on how to care Shell Cordovan beyond the basic way to shine it! i dont like that leather (aesthetically and how it creases) so i dont have pairs made by SC , so i dont have a lot of experience to suggest something "crazy" on how to care it ! (only shined 2-3 pairs of a friend so i think thats not enough for me to give advises on that)

    In your site you dont sell any other conditioner/paste/wax polish than boot black !(i wont do the favor to post a link of your shop ) !! its completely different story if you will do it in the next month from doing it now!

    The problem i see here is that you think that i have something to gain from Safir and that i am here to defend it!! For your consideration i have now or i used most of Safir products , all the products of Collonil (the exclusive importer in my country is a really close friend ) , most of Woly products (for me they have the best dubbin by far but a little tricky to use), some boot black products (paste polish and wax : very good products but they are extremely over priced at my opinion), camel shoepolish all of their products, Allen Edmond's (the new and old series (quite the same product) , C.A (its rebranded safir), Kiwi (parade gloss and their ordinary wax) ,taraggo , shoe snobb (rebranded safir), john lobb polish (paste and wax) .

    i dont need to call anyone at all !! "Scripta manent" as the Romans was saying (written things are always here) ! Everyone can see what you have said (dry leather behaves better at the lasting process etc)

    I never said you are a bad person (believe me have seen here some) or anything like that! I can accept that you want to promote your merchandise but i cant tolerate suggesting things that are not true, which cause more damage than do good in the long run! I dont try to discredit you at all, but i think i have every right to comment and say my opinion on what you are suggesting and writing as everyone has on what i write or suggest! You are discrediting yourself by editing your posts all the time after a some certain period of time, its bad for everyone to answer to something and afterwords the part where you were referring to not to exist!

    what i suggested(and it was purely a friendly advice) about the black pair and not waxing the vamp area and remove the dust by brushing can be clarified by everyone in this thread!The problem its not the wax it self , is the dust particles that trapped in there and act like a sand paper!will happen even if you use the best wax and polish!You can see that the surface is not smooth(especially at the heel area) and most of the shine comes from the intense light come through the window/balcony door and the angle of the camera!

    According to the Safir mirror gloss, i have used it on 2-3 different pairs during the presentation ,the official importer here invited us to tell him our opinion about the product! Its a really good product and very simple to use (especially for someone with not much experience) produces a dissent mirror shine quite easily !! its really close to the original MDO wax but has fewer solvents (turpentine here, you can that even by comparing the smell of the 2 products) and a lot more carnauba wax (you can tell that even from color), and some other waxes! if i would buy it? i am not sure!! For someone with not much experience on mirror shinning it ll be a great help i think! according to my experience the best results on mirror shining come with the combination of the Collonil 1909 wax and a touch up With Safir MDO wax and a mixture of some oils i use!(thats what works best with my technique always)

    i think you can order it from Hanger project if you want to test one or contact avel directly to send you a sample !
     
  9. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Saarlouis
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Any questions? Who is the big liar?

    I make shoe care since 42 years, that's a longer time than you are old, isn't it?
    I've had more than 10 pairs of Shell Cordovan shoes, Alden and Allen Edmonds, and the experience with SC since exactly 29 years.
    That's why I know Shell Cordovan and how to handle it very well - you don't do it.

    I know the difference between leather cream, shoe cream and the different shoe polishes (waxes) very well also - you don't know the international terms.
    You write only a lot of nonsense about it but you don't know the (very important) difference between Turpentine and Turpentine oil
    in the polishes of AVEL and Saphir MDO is Balsam Turpentine OIL but not one drop of Turpentine!

    I know the difference and attributes of the different shoe polishes, which are good to make a real mirror shine (they cover the graining completely) and the glass effect.
    I've made so much high shine polishes in the different ways that I can't count them but you can find the photos in different places like Newsaboutshoes, Facebook, Printerest, Stilmagazin, bestofbest-moda.com aso..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    If you would write that I don't have any experience of shoe care and that I don't know what I'm speaking of in a German spoken forum, it doesn't matter in which one,
    that would be the best Carnival joke ever!

    You can call monsieur Moura, it's the chief of AVEL which makes Saphir or his partner and cousin monsieur Marc Vallez, the chairman of Valmour:
    Both gentlemen know me very well, and ask them please who has supported their brand in Germany and in other countries also.

    Saphir MIRROR GLOSS is easy to use - I agree to this opinion. It's a nice item for beginners.

    Please stopp writing your nonsense and other lies about me and don't trump the other readers, please!

    You write wonderful fairytales about the attributes of shoe creams, the ingredients like "Turpentine" and shoe care - write a book about your knowledges:
    We've Carnival in Germany - it would be an excellent treasure trove for shoe care jokes. :nodding:
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2017
  10. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Jul 23, 2012
    Location:
    Athens

    First of all learn to read what i have wrote its basic education (obviously you never had) and learn to have manners! you started insulting here and believe me i am really good at picking up the glove!! i have all the log files of your site ,print screens etc (that's the problem when you edit something in servers (it leaves traces like the editing you did here in every post to cover up your nonsense) !! i said you don't sell conditioner/paste polish(cream polish)/ wax polish of any other brand than boot black and you point to me with arrows 1 waterproofing spray can, one spray can for recoloring-waterproofing nubuk/suede ,one polishing cloth and a lotion!! If you cant understand at least what others say to you how do you expect to have correct conversation! It is now more than obvious that different things you understand , different things you want say as an answer and different things you write!!

    (*) you make shoe care ?? really what you invented? send me patent number and the product you invented!!(or learn the language before you start posting here, your level isnt even close to preliminary school)


    lets start with the basic !!

    (1) yes i can see that from your recommendations!oversaturating shoes, 9 applications of cream/conditioner at the same spot( leads to oversaturation 100%) , dry leather is best for lasting ,if you use a conditioner cream you cant polish after using a paste polish(shoe cream for you) /wax polish, polish don't work on new leather well ! your knowledge is PhD level!! stop shit storming the thread

    (2)Turpentine /spirit of turpentine/ turpentine oil/wood turpentine etc is exactly the same thing !! Stop shit storming the thread pls and learn to read and search before posting nonsense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine and some other links if you want with the exact chemical formula and other information (what it is, how its produced etc) Sorry i cant give you basic chemistry lessons from a forum you have to go back to school ( you didn't even know what a solvent is and you want to enlighten us in the contribution of a solvent in shoe polish really educational i can say)

    (3)yes i can see that from your recommendations here (you didn't even know what kind of leather CXL is and you suggested something that would ruin the pair) , what you post and the wrong terminology you are using most of the time!

    (4) its really satisfying to see you use a term that i was the first who used it to describe it!! always nice to see people trying to copy you

    (5) here is an international forum (worldwide) !not in a country(i don't believe German people who is a hard working nation believe any of your nonsense you post especially if you post the same nonsense you post here!) and not in the 40's ! welcome to the big league

    Every time you speak or suggest something about shoe care and shoe care solutions 9 times out of 10 is pure nonsense, with no scientific background to justify anything !! Only general speaking that you know everything but when you speak the lack of knowledge is more than obvious! !!! Pls keep up posting nonsense and i ll be more than happy to dictate them one by one!!

    ps.You never trully answered when me or Patrickbooth mentioned something false you said you just kept draveling and saying nonsense!! keep editing every post its really funny to see you trying to cover up an nonsense you previously posted![​IMG] by the way keep spamming its entertaining to say you know whe you dont even now what a solvent is!!!
     
  11. Brujo

    Brujo Well-Known Member

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    Saarlouis
    My posts are a little bit different to your assertions - have a nice day!
     
  12. Biggquis

    Biggquis Senior member

    Messages:
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    Jan 21, 2012
    Hey guys... question from a newbie at shoecare here. I'm about to apply Bick4 to some shoes for the firsts time. The shoes were purchased from Ebay used so I don't know how the previous owner cared for them. They look fine enough with no scratches or blemishes, decent sheen to the leather. Should I apply a thick layer of conditioner, or thin? If it's thin, is there ever a reason to apply a thick layer?
     
  13. Carl1955

    Carl1955 Senior member

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    May 26, 2015
    Location:
    Chester UK
    Thin

    Less is more!!
     
    3 people like this.
  14. masernaut

    masernaut Senior member

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    Oct 14, 2012
    Always thin. It's better to have three thin layers over time than one thick layer at once. You want to allow the leather to breathe.
     
  15. Biggquis

    Biggquis Senior member

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    Jan 21, 2012
    Does the Allen Edmonds Premium Shoe Polish have wax in it? Just thinking if I should use the walnut color to attempt to get a shine on the toes of my Strands, or if I would also need another product, like the carnuba polish.
     
  16. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    Yes it has wax in it ! Depends what you mean by "attempt to get a shine on the toes" !! if you want to mirror shine the toes with the AE p.s.p it would be really really hard (i have done it once just to see if it is possible to mirror shine with a paste/cream polish but believe me its a pain in ... and doesnt worth the effort at all) !! you can easily raise a good shine by applying the product on the toe are with your finger or a really soft cloth (with circular motions) ,let it ''sit'' (about 1 minute , generally the time you ll need to apply the product at the second shoe is enough) , then add some water (2-3 drops on the brush preferably) and then brush vigorously and you be "good to go"!

    i hope i helped you a little bit![​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. benhour

    benhour Senior member

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    As we are in the shoe care thread and i had some time to post some before-after photos:
    Crockett and Jones Handgrade Marston
    Before:
    i dont even know how he managed to make them look like this in 3 months of wear and why he stuffed them with this acrylic along the stitching !(i have previously posted the procedure in an older post)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    after the first deep cleaning (renomat/acetone etc) and some shoe polish(one application of paste polish and wax only the tip of the toe) letting them to "sit"
    [​IMG]

    after some treatment for the creases and an antiquing yesterday
    [​IMG]

    the antiquing was made by using dyes (dark brown,medium brown(thans to Mr cbfn idea for the concept)) worked with brushes(mostly for the welt area) and my modelistic airbrush!
    i hope you all enjoy the outcome[​IMG]
     
    14 people like this.
  18. florent

    florent Member

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    May 11, 2016
    Great outcome!
    Would you explain your treatment for creases? (Sorry if it has been discussed previously)
     
    1 person likes this.
  19. EUtroll

    EUtroll Senior member

    Messages:
    136
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    Sep 6, 2015
    Hi guys,

    a quick question on the issue of red wine.

    My wife's night out was slightly disrupted by a big glass of red all over her tan leather jodhpurs. I quickly cleaned them off with a wet rag and I can't see any real stains anymore. However, should I nevertheless take any precautionary steps?

    Any input would be much appreciated.

    E
     
  20. Munky

    Munky Senior member

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    Beautiful work on your shoes, Benhour! A great result! Kind regards, Munky
     
    1 person likes this.

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