The Bespoke Shoes Thread

[clee1982]

And I understand this is a US centric forum, so the perception of talking generalization has a very different meaning for example vs. Taiwanese talking about Japanese while living in Taiwan without a lot more elaboration.

 

[clee1982]

Me, an Asian person, knowing that socio-political and economic structures are often the reasons for social outcomes and that "culture" and "DNA" are fuzzy catchall variables used to excuse the person from the harder work of researching, but also knowing that I can use these theories about Asian superiority to my advantage

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can you not take that far, where in my post has I said superiority?

edit: in case I'm not clear, not saying being japanese guarantee you better result, not saying being japanese allow you to make better shoes, but I'm pretty confident saying the japanese culture appreciate craftmanship a lot more so, and that level of dedication is culture driven not DNA

 

[Texasmade]

Me, an Asian person, knowing that socio-political and economic structures are often the reasons for social outcomes and that "culture" and "DNA" are fuzzy catchall variables used to excuse the person from the harder work of researching, but also knowing that I can use these theories about Asian superiority to my advantage

View attachment 1499110

Until it comes time to apply for college. We get completely fucked over.

 

[dauster]

I don't study Japan or shoemaking. But when someone says something like that, I would rather ask, what allows someone in another country to persist at "digging" (whatever that means), whereas people in another country are not allowed to "dig?" (Again, not sure what digging means, but I assume you mean plying a trade). Is it government funding? The differences in the cost of living? Organizations in that society?

I think some of the characterizations we see used here and elsewhere are often a result of shrewd marketing. Our romantic ideas about Italians springs from a post-war developmental strategy for fashion (at least our romantic ideas about tailors and fashion, as it's expressed here). If you get your ideas about Japan from a sushi documentary ....

yes all my knowledge from japan comes from one sushi documentary sometimes I think you want to discuss / debate things just for the sake of debating them - entertaining for sure but hard to believe that you don't understand a little where I am coming from. let's agree to disagree.

 

[dieworkwear]

yes all my knowledge from japan comes from one sushi documentary sometimes I think you would to discuss / debate things just for the sake of debating them - entertaining for sure but hard to believe that you don't understand a little where I am coming from. let's agree to disagree.

Arguing is in my DNA, part of the Buddhist tradition where they have debate circles and then clap every time a monk makes a point.

 

[dauster]

Until it comes time to apply for college. We get completely fucked over.

harvard admissions office has left the chat

 

[dieworkwear]

Is there a menswear version of weebos?

 

[beargonefishing]

Until it comes time to apply for college. We get completely fucked over.

You went to Tech, so this checks out.

Geeeet yer gunnnnsss upppp.

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

I don't know what's going on here, but I feel as though it wouldn't be too improper for me to interrupt it with a general discussion about bespoke shoes.

I'm contemplating getting some bespoke shoes made at some point in the future, presumably some years distant. The idea appeals to me partly because bespoke things do generally and because I have big dumb elephant feet that are very feet with high arches and a high instep. Nothing has ever quite fit them well. There is a bespoke cobbler, Perry Ercolino, whom it would be pretty convenient for me to reach from Philadelphia.

I'm reluctant to actually pursue bespoke shoes because I'm not terribly invested in the details of shoes in general, not sure what I would use them for and especially because I'm worried about ruining the investment through use. I suppose my lack of interest is correctable and probably would be corrected if I started thinking about it seriously. I'm ambivalent about what the shoes that I might get would be for; part of me thinks that the expense could be suitable for 'occasional' shoes of some kind, but I'm not sure what, but the other part thinks that if I'm getting them for comfort, it should be for wearing daily so as to fully enjoy the benefits. I'm especially worried about the wear. I tend to be very hard on my shoes and in particular I have damnable habit of somehow scratching or even cutting the uppers at the tip. That's something to grumble about on a pair of Park Avenues that I paid a few hundred dollars for, but would presumably justify a full 'Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith" NOOOOOOOOO in the case of shoes that cost tenfold as much.

So, would I do best to continue to contemplate this extravagance or would I be better off continuing to tear through pairs of Allen Edmonds until the end of my natural life?

 

[clee1982]

I don't know get a chelsea in a tough leather, and you don't mind it looked more "beat up"?

 

[dieworkwear]

I don't know what's going on here, but I feel as though it wouldn't be too improper for me to interrupt it with a general discussion about bespoke shoes.

I'm contemplating getting some bespoke shoes made at some point in the future, presumably some years distant. The idea appeals to me partly because bespoke things do generally and because I have big dumb elephant feet that are very feet with high arches and a high instep. Nothing has ever quite fit them well. There is a bespoke cobbler, Perry Ercolino, whom it would be pretty convenient for me to reach from Philadelphia.

I'm reluctant to actually pursue bespoke shoes because I'm not terribly invested in the details of shoes in general, not sure what I would use them for and especially because I'm worried about ruining the investment through use. I suppose my lack of interest is correctable and probably would be corrected if I started thinking about it seriously. I'm ambivalent about what the shoes that I might get would be for; part of me thinks that the expense could be suitable for 'occasional' shoes of some kind, but I'm not sure what, but the other part thinks that if I'm getting them for comfort, it should be for wearing daily so as to fully enjoy the benefits. I'm especially worried about the wear. I tend to be very hard on my shoes and in particular I have damnable habit of somehow scratching or even cutting the uppers at the tip. That's something to grumble about on a pair of Park Avenues that I paid a few hundred dollars for, but would presumably justify a full 'Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith" NOOOOOOOOO in the case of shoes that cost tenfold as much.

So, would I do best to continue to contemplate this extravagance or would I be better off continuing to tear through pairs of Allen Edmonds until the end of my natural life?

I didn't really get the appeal of bespoke shoes at first because 1) I don't like very sleek shoes, and many bespoke shoes on the internet are very sleek and 2) I don't have a problem fitting into ready to wear.

But after having tried bespoke tailoring, I thought I'd give bespoke shoes a try. I tried Nicholas Templeman (whose work I like) and Cleverley (whose work I don't like).

I think bespoke shoes have many similarities to bespoke suits and sport coats in that you have to find a company that works for you. I think the difference is that, unless you have a problem with fitting into ready to wear shoes, the upside is less obvious. I mostly buy bespoke suits and sport coats for various reasons -- fits, silhouette, ability to customize, etc. But for bespoke shoes, I mostly buy them just because I like wearing the shoes I bought from Nicholas. They're made to a higher standard than Goodyear welted, and I was able to get designs I can't find on the market. But it's mostly just about the feeling I get from wearing them.

Hard to say whether bespoke shoes will be worth it to you until you try them. But I would say that, over the years, I've come to appreciate that craft-based businesses are not just about the quality of the workmanship (which is seemingly the focus of online discussions). It's partly about how well the business can guide you towards better choices. And whether they can help you realize the design in your head. And there's the simple service component.

I appreciate that I can ask Nicholas if something is a suit shoe or a sport coat shoe, as he's designed enough of them and has a good sense of style to suggest whether a combo works. I also trust his designs and appreciate that I can communicate what's in my mind and he'll make it look right. You can't specify everything, as words are imperfect descriptors, so you have to rely on the maker's sense of taste and judgment. Lastly, I appreciate that I can call a maker to describe a very specific detail. By comparison, ordering from some tailors and shoemakers feels like MTO by comparison.

Like with tailors, I would start with someone whose work you admire not just in terms of craft, but also design. Then try to get honest opinions from previous customers. Ideally, those people have extensive experience with bespoke and are willing to provide candid opinions.

 

[Texasmade]

You went to Tech, so this checks out.

Geeeet yer gunnnnsss upppp.

15x meat judging national champions!

 

[ballmouse]

I don't know what's going on here, but I feel as though it wouldn't be too improper for me to interrupt it with a general discussion about bespoke shoes.

I'm contemplating getting some bespoke shoes made at some point in the future, presumably some years distant. The idea appeals to me partly because bespoke things do generally and because I have big dumb elephant feet that are very feet with high arches and a high instep. Nothing has ever quite fit them well. There is a bespoke cobbler, Perry Ercolino, whom it would be pretty convenient for me to reach from Philadelphia.

I'm reluctant to actually pursue bespoke shoes because I'm not terribly invested in the details of shoes in general, not sure what I would use them for and especially because I'm worried about ruining the investment through use. I suppose my lack of interest is correctable and probably would be corrected if I started thinking about it seriously. I'm ambivalent about what the shoes that I might get would be for; part of me thinks that the expense could be suitable for 'occasional' shoes of some kind, but I'm not sure what, but the other part thinks that if I'm getting them for comfort, it should be for wearing daily so as to fully enjoy the benefits. I'm especially worried about the wear. I tend to be very hard on my shoes and in particular I have damnable habit of somehow scratching or even cutting the uppers at the tip. That's something to grumble about on a pair of Park Avenues that I paid a few hundred dollars for, but would presumably justify a full 'Darth Vader in Revenge of the Sith" NOOOOOOOOO in the case of shoes that cost tenfold as much.

So, would I do best to continue to contemplate this extravagance or would I be better off continuing to tear through pairs of Allen Edmonds until the end of my natural life?

Perry is a good guy. He's probably the only bespoke maker who made me a really good product on his first try. While yes he is expensive, he does all the shoemaking work himself and he's a very attentive listener to what a customer wants/needs. I suppose you could get a sleeker style or possibly cheaper bespoke done in Europe/Japan, though he's one of the few makers I know of in the USA and he's quick to respond to questions.

And since you mentioned him, I happened to do some interviews with him in the past week or so and I uploaded the audio to Youtube. If you have any questions you can obviously call/email him yourself, but I plan to do a few more recordings with him so if you have any questions let me know and I can get an answer out of him.

 

[Encathol Epistemia]

I didn't really get the appeal of bespoke shoes at first because 1) I don't like very sleek shoes, and many bespoke shoes on the internet are very sleek and 2) I don't have a problem fitting into ready to wear.

But after having tried bespoke tailoring, I thought I'd give bespoke shoes a try. I tried Nicholas Templeman (whose work I like) and Cleverley (whose work I don't like).

I think bespoke shoes have many similarities to bespoke suits and sport coats in that you have to find a company that works for you. I think the difference is that, unless you have a problem with fitting into ready to wear shoes, the upside is less obvious. I mostly buy bespoke suits and sport coats for various reasons -- fits, silhouette, ability to customize, etc. But for bespoke shoes, I mostly buy them just because I like wearing the shoes I bought from Nicholas. They're made to a higher standard than Goodyear welted, and I was able to get designs I can't find on the market. But it's mostly just about the feeling I get from wearing them.

Hard to say whether bespoke shoes will be worth it to you until you try them. But I would say that, over the years, I've come to appreciate that craft-based businesses are not just about the quality of the workmanship (which is seemingly the focus of online discussions). It's partly about how well the business can guide you towards better choices. And whether they can help you realize the design in your head. And there's the simple service component.

I appreciate that I can ask Nicholas if something is a suit shoe or a sport coat shoe, as he's designed enough of them and has a good sense of style to suggest whether a combo works. I also trust his designs and appreciate that I can communicate what's in my mind and he'll make it look right. You can't specify everything, as words are imperfect descriptors, so you have to rely on the maker's sense of taste and judgment. Lastly, I appreciate that I can call a maker to describe a very specific detail. By comparison, ordering from some tailors and shoemakers feels like MTO by comparison.

Like with tailors, I would start with someone whose work you admire not just in terms of craft, but also design. Then try to get honest opinions from previous customers. Ideally, those people have extensive experience with bespoke and are willing to provide candid opinions.

That's an interesting argument. One thing that I've appreciated about working with tailors recently and sometimes hatters before that is advice or direction on style that I had dubious judgement about or hadn't thought of. (E.g. The homburg in my present avatar has a single-ended crown ribbon, a nod to single-ended bowties, at the suggestion of the man who made it.) That might help with my ambivalence about the details of shoes, which I am mostly ignorant of.

My original plan, which I proposed to myself a year or so ago, was to get just a pair of bespoke 'special occasion' shoes, whatever that would mean, that I would wear four or five times annually and perhaps to my grave*. I plan all of my significant purchases several years in advance and revise them relentlessly; it's almost a hobby. Such a revision prompted my original inquiry. Perhaps I should just advance more or less that, hoping that a shoemaker knows what an appropriate and interesting 'special occasion shoe' looks like, then decide from that experience and consultation with the shoemaker whether I should consider commissioning further pairs for regular wear.

I'm also tempted just to find out what shoes that fit very well are like to wear, because I strongly suspect that just as I had not before getting bespoke garments I had never had a jacket that fit my shoulders quite right, I've never worn a pair of shoes that my feet find better than tolerable.

*Just kidding. I'm going to be cremated and the ashes dumped into the nearest sewer grate.

Perry is a good guy. He's probably the only bespoke maker who made me a really good product on his first try. While yes he is expensive, he does all the shoemaking work himself and he's a very attentive listener to what a customer wants/needs. I suppose you could get a sleeker style or possibly cheaper bespoke done in Europe/Japan, though he's one of the few makers I know of in the USA and he's quick to respond to questions.

And since you mentioned him, I happened to do some interviews with him in the past week or so and I uploaded the audio to Youtube. If you have any questions you can obviously call/email him yourself, but I plan to do a few more recordings with him so if you have any questions let me know and I can get an answer out of him.

Those were pretty interesting conversations and I gather that another might be coming. They certainly make a case for working with Mr. Ercolino and I appreciate that some record of his experience is being preserved. If I do commit to ordering bespoke shoes, I'll almost certain go to him since I like what I get made for me to be 'interesting' and he seems like a more interesting choice than getting shoes made in Europe or Japan. Besides, taking the R5 to Doylestown would be a lot quicker and cheaper than flying overseas. (Or, yes, more convenient than accommodating travel schedule)

 

[daizawaguy]

Bespoke chalk holder came with a complementary bespoke shoe!