The Berluti shoe thread

[WSW]

Was at the Dubai store. Saw the new Alessandro edge. In my hands I liked it a lot. Got tempted to make my first Berluti purchase but when I tried it looked a bit clunky on my feel. Almost like beach flip flop. What do you guys think? Also I did not know that stores charge extra to order your size if they don’t have it, is that true? Or were they just trying to make take my size since they happen to have it ??

Charging you extra for a regular in-season model that you have not modified sounds sketchy.

 

[Zapasman]

Triple outsoled?. Ugly as hell!.

 

[MarkWinter]

A beautiful, gently worn pair of Berluti chelseas up for grabs.

 

[OrlandoMo]

Berluti's are made in Italy, not France?
Chris:

You don't add an apostrophe to a plural proper noun. It's not a possessive.

I don't mean to single you out -- it's a common mistake, but it drives me nuts.

To the best of my knowledge, the Berluti ready-to-wear line is made in Ferrara by Stefanobi. All of it. There are also rumors, corroborated by several members whom I trust, that Berlutis are actually now being made in China and finished in Italy solely in order to retain their "Made in Italy" designation. I cannot verify this, and it's been denied by another fellow I spoke to who told me he'd visited the Italian factory where Berluti RTW is still made . Berluti can be rather oblique about their place of manufacture, quality, and other things, and I wouldn't expect the straight truth from their store manager. They do belong to LVMH , after all. Most of the line is Blake stitched, which is a machine stitching process which makes it easier to produce shoes with a slim profile and slim soles, at some cost to durability, or at least to water resistance. That said, a "field test" by one of the French shoe magazines found a Berluti Piercing shoe to be durable enough after a month or two of prolonged wear, with the valuable observation that Berlutis are designed to be like Ferraris (no pun intended) or other expensive sport cars and to be treated delicately. Berluti's old web site stated that certain of their RTW shoes were Goodyear, Africa or Ferrarese welted. I am not sure what the latter two welt processes are, and they appear to be names unique to Berluti. For a hefty surcharge many of the Berluti RTW shoes are available in a Norwegian welt, which gives them that gunboat outrigger look beloved of some Italian shoemakers.

One issue with Berluti RTW is the use of the so-called Venezia leather. According to Berluti PR, this leather allows for the beautiful patination available on Berluti shoes. Unfortunately, this leather is also quite thin and delicate, which means that Berluti shoes with Venezia leather in them (most, though not all Berluti RTW) can look very wrinkled after some wear. This is the case with certain Berluti shoes on certain Japanese websites, and, forgive my writing it, appears to be the case with the Berluti shoes whose pictures Artisan Fan put up.

I own one pair of Berluti. They are the Tibetas, a thick wholecut in grained leather on a rubber sole. They are very comfortable and appear to be aging well. However, an issue in the manufacture of their eyelets caused them to abrade and snap shoelaces frequently. The Berluti shop in St Germain des Pres was very nice about giving me free shoelaces, and finally took the shoes back, refinished the eyelets for free, and I have not had problems with the laces since. Their customer service in France is quite good, albeit one should not have such problems with shoes that cost as much as Berlutis do.

Another issue with Berluti is that each style of shoe only comes in one width. Most are rather narrow. Thus, it may not be possible to get a proper fit in the Berluti style one wants.

One poster once advised that certain Berluti so-called bespoke models are just "special order from Ferrara" made to RTW standard. My guess, my uninformed guess, is that the styles in the Olga II collection ("Guerrier", etc.), which only available via "sur mesure", may be among them. I may be wrong.

Berluti does, however, offer true bespoke. The true bespoke is allegedly made in Paris in workshops on the rue du Louvre. I have not seen Berluti bespoke in person. However, T4phage has a pair and has told me that they are incredible. Price is competitive with Corthay and the rest of the Paris bespoke crew -- 3000 euros or so. When I was curious about getting bespoke shoes in Paris, the Berluti St Germain team told me that following the first bespoke shoe purchase, subsequent pairs would be cheaper as the last would have been made. They also told me they would have their Maitre Bottier contact me once he returned to Paris. That was six months ago, and I haven't waited.

The bespoke shoe world in Paris is a small one, and it's quickly apparent that everyone knows everyone else. As in London, bespoke houses use outworkers to work on shoes, so that at least one bottier I know of handles work for Berluti, Lobb and Aubercy due to his contacts. It is clear that bespoke is a tiny part of Berluti's business. Indeed, their website no longer even mentions it.

Olga is a visionary designer. I see shoes made by all sorts of makers from Allen Edmonds to Weston to knock-offs in cheap shoe stores aping the Berluti Tatoues (wholecuts with brogue patterns). Ironically, that design was the subject of an IP suit by Berluti against Gucci group, a proxy war between LVMH and PPR in which Berluti argued a Gucci shoe copied its design. Berluti won. The Berluti patina has been copied as well. It's put on with chemicals as well as polish, as best I can gather. However, many shoe shops in Paris will give your shoes antique jobs; Shipton & Heneage and Crockett & Jones, among others, offer such services. Many cheaper shoe stores sell heavily patinated shoes as well. For every incredible design, such as the Tatoues, the Piercings, the Tatouages, there are horrible travesties such as the Indio, the entire Dandy Sauvage line, and the Rapieces Reprises. Most recently the second floor of Berluti's flagship on the rue Marbeuf was renovated by a fellow named Carlo Rampazzi who makes Liberace look dour. Bad or good, these design choices keep Berluti's profile high. I do believe that Berluti has been very influential in recent shoe design. Very interesting to note how Alan Flusser described them twenty years ago in Making the Man -- a conservative brand with conservative designs favored by older men.

Continuing the visionary metaphor, Olga is good PR for the company as she utters statements worthy of the Pythia. I don't believe that my shoes were tanned by moonlight; and while it was good fun to use a bit of red wine in polishing them I don't believe champagne or any other wine or liquor has a particularly helpful result in polishing them. Olga got that from Beau Brummell. Ian Kelly suggests in his biography of the Beau that Brummell's statements about polishing shoes with champagne were made for effect, and Olga appears to have followed his example. Until several years ago, Berluti's PR was the irrepressible Yann Debelle de Montby, who has since joined Dunhill as its dandy about town.

LVMH has a stated objective of 50 Berluti boutiques worldwide and a Berluti line expanded to include clothing. This no doubt will dilute the brand further. They gain from the high visibility and mythos surrounding Berluti to keep raising its prices and to keep puffing its quality. Barneys, for one, called Berluti the "finest handmade shoes", and Berlutis are not, really, handmade. Berluti's pricing in the US also indicates that they are aiming at the Lattanzi market. They benefit from the information deficit out there.

Berlutis are decent shoes, but overpriced by a factor of at least two in RTW.

Apologies for the disjointed nature of this post. I just wanted to get all this out. I have stated where relevant the parts of my knowledge that are not firsthand.

What do you think about Santoni?

 

[shirtingfantasy]

In my locality (Hong Kong, China), Berluti have an after-sales service better than any of the British, French, Italian and Spanish brands.

Santoni has one branch in my city and there is significant limit to what they can do despite their being such sizeable Italian maker. When asked about whether a change of their patina colour is possible, branch staff explained politely that “shoes would be sent back to Italy, and then we can come back with a quote, ranging from EUR 250 to 600”. Whereas Berluti here can add metal toe plate, rubber half sole, perform full resole - and of course change the patina - locally, and for a much more reasonable amount.

In terms of shoes offered, Santoni here have more Goodyear welted shoes compared to Berluti (maybe 40-50% vs 10%). But I tend to think Santoni lasts are a bit “bulbous”, whereas Berluti lasts are invariably elegant (Eclair may be long, and Edge may be eccentric, but both are rather interesting to look at). Perhaps it had something to do with Santoni offering very wide fitting shoes for their Asian stores.

Attached photo is my pair of Gaspard Galet sent back for rejuvenation of patina and polish.

 

[Proleet]

In my locality (Hong Kong, China), Berluti have an after-sales service better than any of the British, French, Italian and Spanish brands.

Santoni has one branch in my city and there is significant limit to what they can do despite their being such sizeable Italian maker. When asked about whether a change of their patina colour is possible, branch staff explained politely that “shoes would be sent back to Italy, and then we can come back with a quote, ranging from EUR 250 to 600”. Whereas Berluti here can add metal toe plate, rubber half sole, perform full resole - and of course change the patina - locally, and for a much more reasonable amount.

In terms of shoes offered, Santoni here have more Goodyear welted shoes compared to Berluti (maybe 40-50% vs 10%). But I tend to think Santoni lasts are a bit “bulbous”, whereas Berluti lasts are invariably elegant (Eclair may be long, and Edge may be eccentric, but both are rather interesting to look at). Perhaps it had something to do with Santoni offering very wide fitting shoes for their Asian stores.

Attached photo is my pair of Gaspard Galet sent back for rejuvenation of patina and polish.

Interesting to see value and Berluti named in one sentence. To me their prices appear close to a social experiment to see what laughable amount they can get away with...if you love their style by all means go for it but at their price level I wouldn’t expect anything less than stellar service

 

[shirtingfantasy]

Interesting to see value and Berluti named in one sentence. To me their prices appear close to a social experiment to see what laughable amount they can get away with...if you love their style by all means go for it but at their price level I wouldn’t expect anything less than stellar service

The saddening fact is, the "value" of other brands has also gone down significantly with the menswear bloom in the past 5 years. A pair of John Lobb "Marldon" retails for GBP 1,470/ USD 2,070/ HKD 17,500 (all quotes from respective regional sites). A pair of Berluti "Alessandro Eclair" retails for GBP 1,570/ USD 2,350/ HKD 18,500. Both wholecut oxfords. Both Goodyear welted. The difference between the respectable and the laughable is... GBP 100/ USD 300/ HKD 1,000.

Does it shock you if I tell you that, on a recent visit to John Lobb (HK store), I was told that they "cannot arrange for metal toe plates to be added" and was suggested to find a local cobbler myself for the job?

It is perhaps also comforting to realise that the price of Berluti "special order" isn't much higher than a pair of Edward Green "top drawer"; and then the somewhat shocking price of Berluti bespoke is actually comparable to that of John Lobb Paris.

 

[Proleet]

The saddening fact is, the "value" of other brands has also gone down significantly with the menswear bloom in the past 5 years. A pair of John Lobb "Marldon" retails for GBP 1,470/ USD 2,070/ HKD 17,500 (all quotes from respective regional sites). A pair of Berluti "Alessandro Eclair" retails for GBP 1,570/ USD 2,350/ HKD 18,500. Both wholecut oxfords. Both Goodyear welted. The difference between the respectable and the laughable is... GBP 100/ USD 300/ HKD 1,000.

Does it shock you if I tell you that, on a recent visit to John Lobb (HK store), I was told that they "cannot arrange for metal toe plates to be added" and was suggested to find a local cobbler myself for the job?

It is perhaps also comforting to realise that the price of Berluti "special order" isn't much higher than a pair of Edward Green "top drawer"; and then the somewhat shocking price of Berluti bespoke is actually comparable to that of John Lobb Paris.

That’s some great service there! (Esp. Considering that just a limited amount of cobblers actually seems to do flushed toe taps..).

Quite frankly I find all of those brands outrageously priced (but probably mostly Berluti sneakers retailing at well over 2k). Maybe I simply miss what differences might be there but paying 2x for EG or Lobb over regular Meccariello lines already feels very off to me. I guess I’m just not getting the luxury added value ;-)

 

[shirtingfantasy]

I do prefer to have these cobbling operations done by the maker as far as possible. Say when I order from Meccariello, I order the Vibram insert and metal toe tap option with him to save the second wait after receiving the shoes. In reality, waiting for the maker to add and waiting for my cobbler to add should be equivalent. So it's just a quirk of mine, perhaps.

Berluti store staff did try to haunt me with the story that some outside cobblers accidentally broke the stitching and detached the sole for the customer while sanding/ peeling off a layer from the thin Blake sole for attaching the rubber. I did pretend to be frightened.

 

[dauster]

I thought I'd share these pics of bespoke samples from the Rue Marbeuf store. They kindly sent me pics after I inquired about bespoke shoes. Also, for non European it might be interesting to know that it's 6,200 euros including VAT for your first pair. Deducting 20% VAT since I live in the US makes the adventure interesting.

 

[Texasmade]

Pretty big price discrepancy for the Paris store and US. I was told $8500 for a new customer.

 

[dauster]

Pretty big price discrepancy for the Paris store and US. I was told $8500 for a new customer.

I guess they take what they can get... Most RTW shoes are more expensive in the US vs Europe also. Maybe they take into account the travel for US based orders.

Also seems like everybody at Berluti quotes different prices - Las Vegas store quoted me $7800-$8200 - given the insane price tag and its not much difference but I can hardly believe that they don't get this question asked more often.

 

[Texasmade]

At that price I would be tempted to try Berluti. Does Berluti allow you to pay in Paris and then do measurements in the USA? I don’t think John Lobb Paris allows you to order in Paris and then do measurements plus final delivery in the US. I heard they refund you in euros and then recharge in dollars.

 

[dauster]

At that price I would be tempted to try Berluti. Does Berluti allow you to pay in Paris and then do measurements in the USA? I don’t think John Lobb Paris allows you to order in Paris and then do measurements plus final delivery in the US. I heard they refund you in euros and then recharge in dollars.

Interesting, not sure will ask them. Can't believe that they would refund in euros and then charge in dollars. It's not like thousands of people all over the world are attempting this arbitrage for bespoke shoes

 

[Texasmade]

Might have something to do with John Lobb having a person based in the US while Berluti requires someone from the Paris workshop to fly over.