Streamlined Shoe Wardrobe

[glenjay]



According to John Lobb St James black/white catalogue from 1939, both punch cap and stitch cap are considered plain oxfords.  There's no quarter brogue in their catalogue.  And JL "invented" the semi-brogue.

According to Manton, quarter brogues includes additional broguings along the vamp outside of the punched cap.  But in Men's Ex, sometimes they do classify some punch caps as quarter brogues.  And there's always JL Phillips II that rests between punch cap and quarter brogue.

Thanks chogall, I think I now understand.

To be a brogue style shoe at all, a shoe needs to have broguing in other areas than just the toe cap. A punchcap simply has broguing on the toe cap seam.

Quarter Brogue:

Punchcap:

So if I understand right, all quarter brogues are punchcaps, but not all punchcaps are quarter brogues. Does that sound correct?

 

[RogerP]

I'm not saying burg calf is wrong. I'm just saying it should be.

Well isn't that simply elevating a personal preference to a rule of general application by stating that it is a "basic principle"?

 

[Gerry Nelson]

So is the difference between the quarter brogue above and a semi-brogue (below) simply the medallion on the toe cap?

 

[Fred G. Unn]



So if I understand right, all quarter brogues are punchcaps, but not all punchcaps are quarter brogues. Does that sound correct?

Alfred Sargent's own web site calls that top shoe "our Adelaide punch cap oxford," which by this reasoning is correct, but it could be called a quarter brogue as well, right?
http://alfredsargent.co.uk/exclusive-range/moore/

 

[chogall]

Thanks chogall, I think I now understand.

To be a brogue style shoe at all, a shoe needs to have broguing in other areas than just the toe cap. A punchcap simply has broguing on the toe cap seam.

Quarter Brogue:



Punchcap:




So if I understand right, all quarter brogues HAS punchcaps, but not all punchcaps are quarter brogues. Does that sound correct?

That's what I deduce from Manton's statement and John Lobb St James description.

So is the difference between the quarter brogue above and a semi-brogue (below) simply the medallion on the toe cap?

Yes. And in some odd cases like Meermin, there are quarter brogues without counters.

 

[AldenPyle]



Of necessity, I have a pair of burgundy calf shoes. I polish them with black meltoninian shoe cream, occasionally black wax and less occasionally cordovan (burgundy) wax. I think this has given them a nice depth of color, but I admit that without this effort, they would look like crap.

Black shoe cream turned out to be a great suggestion. Thanks!

 

[radicaldog]



I'm not saying burg calf is wrong. I'm just saying it should be.

I suppose I'd deny that: proper calf takes dark red tones well. But we'll never settle that. More interestingly, do you agree that, in extremis, a pair of black captoe oxfords and one of burgundy (cordovan or calf!) captoe derbies can cover any situation without being terribly inappropriate?

Edit: For that question to make sense I'd have to specify whether I mean that those shoes could go with any classic set of clothes, or whether I mean that one could have a suitably restricted clothes wardrobe that could cover any situation and work well with those two pairs of shoes. I'm tempted to go with the first, stronger claim. I think that, in a pinch, burg derbies work with anything from heavy dark grey flannel to cream linen. And everything inbetween. The black oxfords are just a necessity for black tie, weddings, interviews, etc.

 

[msulinski]



I suppose I'd deny that: proper calf takes dark red tones well. But we'll never settle that. More interestingly, do you agree that, in extremis, a pair of black captoe oxfords and one of burgundy (cordovan or calf!) captoe derbies can cover any situation without being terribly inappropriate?

Edit: For that question to make sense I'd have to specify whether I mean that those shoes could go with any classic set of clothes, or whether I mean that one could have a suitably restricted clothes wardrobe that could cover any situation and work well with those two pairs of shoes. I'm tempted to go with the first, stronger claim. I think that, in a pinch, burg derbies work with anything from heavy dark grey flannel to cream linen. And everything inbetween. The black oxfords are just a necessity for black tie, weddings, interviews, etc.

I'm not sure if I agree or not that burgundy derbies go with cream linen from a color perspective. I think the bigger issue is the seasonailty. Cream linen is a spring/summer pant, but burgundy derbies (especially clunky long wings) seem more fall/winter. I'm not sure if that is strictly true, but they do seem very far away from something as strongly summer as cream linen.

 

[radicaldog]



I'm not sure if I agree or not that burgundy derbies go with cream linen from a color perspective. I think the bigger issue is the seasonailty. Cream linen is a spring/summer pant, but burgundy derbies (especially clunky long wings) seem more fall/winter. I'm not sure if that is strictly true, but they do seem very far away from something as strongly summer as cream linen.

Never mentioned longwings. Burgundy captoe derbies, single sole. They're by no means the perfect shoe for cream linen, but they're not wrong either. Basically they'll be OK with jeans and a sweater, any suit and any sportcoat/blazer combo, in any occasion in which black is not mandatory.

 

[RogerP]

Clunky longwings are certainly fall / winter, but I wouldn't put all burgundy-cololured shoes in that category. A sleek burgundy / bordeaux / oxblood derby or monk is a 4-season shoe for me, much as a navy suit works in any season.

Can't comment on how well it goes with cream linen, as I'm not much of a fan of linen outside of a casual shirt.

 

[Manton]



Thanks chogall, I think I now understand.

To be a brogue style shoe at all, a shoe needs to have broguing in other areas than just the toe cap. A punchcap simply has broguing on the toe cap seam.

Quarter Brogue:

This is an adelaide

 

[RDiaz]

Can't an adelaide be a quarter brogue at the same time?

 

[radicaldog]



Can't an adelaide be a quarter brogue at the same time?

Of course. Nothing Manton said denies that.

 

[Manton]

if you ask for quarter brogue, you won't get that. you need to ask for an Adelaide to get that.

 

[RDiaz]

But maybe I could ask for quarter brogues and I would be shown those that are Adelaides and those that are not?