Protect Ya Neck: Shirt Collars, Knots and Balance

[smartie-pants]

Thoughts here?

(Forgive the limited view of the collar as I just stumbled onto this thread this morning and already had these photos on file. The shirts and blazers were recent bespoke commissions for s/s.)

 

[Crispyj]

Thoughts here?

(Forgive the limited view of the collar as I just stumbled onto this thread this morning and already had these photos on file. The shirts and blazers were recent bespoke commissions for s/s.)

Just curious who's your Bespoke maker?

 

[JohnMRobie]

Thoughts here?

(Forgive the limited view of the collar as I just stumbled onto this thread this morning and already had these photos on file. The shirts and blazers were recent bespoke commissions for s/s.)

Really can’t tell anything about the collars here or balance/proportions.

As for the combinations. Personally I don’t like shirts being darker than jackets.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Just curious who's your Bespoke maker?

Details look like Martorano to me but that’s just a guess.

 

[stephen nyc]

Anyone know a good site to buy off the rack - a semi spread with an elongated collar such as this? Thank you

 

[ValidusLA]

Thoughts here?

(Forgive the limited view of the collar as I just stumbled onto this thread this morning and already had these photos on file. The shirts and blazers were recent bespoke commissions for s/s.)

Really can’t tell anything about the collars here or balance/proportions.

As for the combinations. Personally I don’t like shirts being darker than jackets.

Agree. I think one shoulder, no face, no tie, unbuttoned isn't helpful. It's a certain style of insta shot that doesn't tell much about what it looks like I'm real life.

 

[pasadena man]

This thread is getting..granular, in a useful way for me. I’ll share my evolving viewpoint in this area. I have a big, triangularly shaped, head, so had followed the standard thinking and would usually wear a spread collar with a tie so that the horizontal collar would balance the long vertical of the face.

Some things have changed over the last couple of years. I wear ties less often. More important, I lost 25+ pounds, so my neck is thinner. And I suddenly noticed, for the first time perhaps, that I have quite a long neck. The long, thinner, neck is not my best feature. So I have gotten into the habit of wearing a lot more OCBD’s, to raise the collar line to reduce the neck length, and also because the OCBD’s stand up much better when wearing tailoring without a tie.

There are some compromises involved. The more vertical OCBD profile doesn’t provide as good a balance to the long face as the spread collar does, and the OCBD can be a bit of a stretch when I wear Northern Italian tailoring, Gianni Agnelli’s tastes to the contrary notwithstanding.

 

[JohnMRobie]

Anyone know a good site to buy off the rack - a semi spread with an elongated collar such as this? Thank you View attachment 1889403

Tom Ford is the only one that comes to mind off top of my head - His “point” is closer to a semi-spread IMO. But by the time you’re dropping 6-700 on a poplin shirt why not go bespoke and get something from a maker who can design you your own collar (and probably provide a better fit)

This thread is getting..granular, in a useful way for me. I’ll share my evolving viewpoint in this area. I have a big, triangularly shaped, head, so had followed the standard thinking and would usually wear a spread collar with a tie so that the horizontal collar would balance the long vertical of the face.

Some things have changed over the last couple of years. I wear ties less often. More important, I lost 25+ pounds, so my neck is thinner. And I suddenly noticed, for the first time perhaps, that I have quite a long neck. The long, thinner, neck is not my best feature. So I have gotten into the habit of wearing a lot more OCBD’s, to raise the collar line to reduce the neck length, and also because the OCBD’s stand up much better when wearing tailoring without a tie.

There are some compromises involved. The more vertical OCBD profile doesn’t provide as good a balance to the long face as the spread collar does, and the OCBD can be a bit of a stretch when I wear Northern Italian tailoring, Gianni Agnelli’s tastes to the contrary notwithstanding.

This is kind of an interesting consideration - I sort of wonder how much a collar plays in with geometry when worn unbuttoned when you can sort of default to the V from the button, up to help provide balance and if it might make the spread more forgiving. Another option to explore would be a one-piece collar - During the summer I swap button downs for one piece collars with casual looks worn without a tie.

 

[ValidusLA]

Tom Ford is the only one that comes to mind off top of my head - His “point” is closer to a semi-spread IMO. But by the time you’re dropping 6-700 on a poplin shirt why not go bespoke and get something from a maker who can design you your own collar (and probably provide a better fit)

Thats like....2 good bespoke shirts lol.

Tom Ford belongs firmly in the "why pay less" douche camp.

 

[Enfusia]

Ya, I in theory want to "like" or "use" a spread collar more, if anything because it appears to part of the "received wisdom" of styleforum.

If I were to theorize, I might say that has something to do with the fact that most of the people who are comfortable posting full body photos are smaller than I am and most have longer and/or smaller faces.

I don't post many photos here, for many reasons, but this discussion I like, and face shape is kinda central. I just took this. This is a very long point collar (this is the collar the Carl makes for me, its his shirt) and I think ti fits me well. This is 9 cm Shibumi tie and the lapels on this jacket are about 3.5 in (so roughly in line w/ the tie).

I get my peaks more towards 3.75 in pushing 4, and I prefer my ties to be closer to 3.75 inches, but Shibumi doesn't go above 9 cm.

(Apologies to all who find my sc offensively dandyish).

View attachment 1882255

Great example. This collar does relieve some of the facial roundness where a short stubby spread would look silly.
You also do well with your hair having some volume to add height that elongates your head more.

Just my opinion.

 

[Enfusia]

There’s probably more than one way to do this but I find that using one hand to hold the top of the blade in a folded “M” works to set the dimple as the knot is being tightened. Do you do something similar to this?

I have a 7 fold tie that has silk blend that is really difficult to get a dimple on. So, I literally use a pencil to press in the dimple. May sound stupid, but hey, it works.

 

[hpreston]

Anyone know a good site to buy off the rack - a semi spread with an elongated collar such as this? Thank you View attachment 1889403

Tom Ford is the only one that comes to mind off top of my head - His “point” is closer to a semi-spread IMO. But by the time you’re dropping 6-700 on a poplin shirt why not go bespoke and get something from a maker who can design you your own collar (and probably provide a better fit)

There’s got to be several OTR options that are not Tom Ford….

Sid Mashburn: https://shopmashburn.com/products/s...ress-shirt-blue-bengal-stripe-poplin-s002542d

Spier and MacKay: https://www.spierandmackay.com/product/tessitura-monti---blue---end-on-end-ts-2956-c13f5k-ss22

 

[JohnMRobie]

There’s got to be several OTR options that are not Tom Ford….

Sid Mashburn: https://shopmashburn.com/products/s...ress-shirt-blue-bengal-stripe-poplin-s002542d

Spier and MacKay: https://www.spierandmackay.com/product/tessitura-monti---blue---end-on-end-ts-2956-c13f5k-ss22

Spread collars like the ones you posted are definitely aplenty. A really long semi-spread bordering on point like OP asked for is a much more elusive beast.

As @ValidusLA pointed out really early in this thread guys who need a semi-spread or point long enough to tuck under a jacket are pretty much out of luck when it comes to OTR. Obviously any of the MTM or bespoke options can pull it off but he asked for RTW.

 

[Nigel Scott-Williams]

I think from a purely knot trying perspective, it shouldn't matter if you start with wide end on the right or left, it will just end up (as you state) with the knot slightly off center in one direction or the other.

My habit is wide end on my right side to start....

This is a deeply intellectual and neurological question! Who would even think about this (except a 'distinguished' person). I have always started with the wide side on the right, never noticed that the knot would skew slightly more in one direction..... so now I have spent 30 minutes trying to start with the left side (who knew it would be so hard?!!) and adjusting it to be straight, then walking around the house, sitting down, standing up etc. and then going back to the mirror to see how it shifted! The empirical answer is "Not Conclusive".....

 

[hpreston]

Spread collars like the ones you posted are definitely aplenty. A really long semi-spread bordering on point like OP asked for is a much more elusive beast.

As @ValidusLA pointed out really early in this thread guys who need a semi-spread or point long enough to tuck under a jacket are pretty much out of luck when it comes to OTR. Obviously any of the MTM or bespoke options can pull it off but he asked for RTW.

The Spier collar specifically is very long. There’s no way that collar is not tucking under when worn with a suit or sport coat.

My Sid spread collars have similar measurements to the drakes (also OTR) shirt in this pic.
(No pics of Sid shirts handy)